V6 Sei, Advice wanted

[mtxm]

I currently have a very nice 1993 SEI turbo, but would also rather fancy an early V6 manual saloon. Does anyone have any advice on the availability and likely cost and any common pitfalls? I know that both engines and gearboxes can be fairly fragile and, in my experience thus far, the early XM's can suffer from rust to the cills and lower doors. Many thanks and regards, Matthew T.

[Andmcit]

Hi Matthew.

If you see a manual V6, as they're such a rare bird, it will already have been
sold or it wont be for sale. You can't really give AUTO V6's away either as two
going through ebay in one auction for £90 showed a few months ago!

As always, autos are great when they're working but...

A rough guess on quantities suggests the ratio of auto to manual V6's will be
3, 4 to 1, which is sad as the autos ARE fragile. You may find one that will go
past 200k miles but in truth they seem few and far between with the car
scrapped 80k miles earlier due to loss of forward gearing.

If it's any consolation, I've found the actual engines to be bomb proof with
the only vices being head gaskets, starter motors and iffy distributor/coils
and occasionally noisy hydraulic tappets. And the first generation of 90
degree engines use chains, so there's one less thing to worry about going
pop!!

Andrew

[mtxm]

Hi Andrew and thanks for your reply. It seems that a early V6 is quite rare and worth searching out, especially a manual, but how much should I pay if there are likely to be a few jobs needing doing? I understand that clutches can be a problem and quite expensive to replace, and why do most surviving cars have replacement engines? How much of a worry is a bit of rust? Regards, Matthew T.

[Andmcit]

The inevitability of a clutch replacement will happen to 99.9% of manual gearbox cars
(the others never do enough miles to wear their clutch lining!!) whereas an automatic
gearbox is supposed to be a sealed for life unit!!

I'd say most cars these days manage to have their transverse gearbox dropped off the
engine through the wheelarch although frankly I'd rather have the control of fully
removing the engine to do a clutch - it's not that difficult - my pet hate is the downpipe
fastening to the manifold!!

As far as engine longevity is concerned, my '93 Xm 24v 90 degree V6 is nudging 200k
miles so I can't agree they're fragile - or that many have recon/replacement units - they've
been punching these out in Renaults, Volvos and Pugs as well as Citroens for years and they
wouldn't persevere with an inherrently duff motor!

As far as rust is concerned, I'd just watch the rear subframe and it's mountings onto the
floorpan of the bodyshell. The doors are cosmetic, some XM's seem to get rusty patches
2/3 of the way down the sills, whereas others don't - not sure if there's even a pattern
to which last and which don't!!

As far as price - A minter S2 will be the thick end of 5K but a decent s1 manual 12v should
be about £600-£1000 IF you actually find one...

Happy hunting!

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on June 05, 2007 11:54 pm

[mtxm]

Hi Andrew, Thank you very much for your further advice, especially concerning rust on the subframe etc. I wonder how many Series One V6 12v cars there are still on the road - what can other members report? Best regards, Matthew T.

[Andmcit]

http://cars.uk.freeads.net/1996_N_reg_CITROEN_XM-268572.htm

AUTO S2!!

Coincidentally, he's about 5 miles away from me too!!

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on June 05, 2007 12:50 pm

[mtxm]

Thank's Andrew and rather a nice car, certainly, although I would prefer a S1 manual. Also seems a very reasonable price, despite the highish mileage, but rather a long way from me unfortunately in North Norfolk!! Regards, Matthew T.

[jorgy9]

Wasn't there a champagne manual V6 on Autotrader recently -might still be there-?

My manual 12v PRV is a lovely car to drive, it just never makes you think "oh, I wish I had more power!". Power always available at any moment and very refined engine -except if u fall on one with a cracked exhaust manifold(s) -not uncommon- otherwise you can't listen it in car. You really get to experience what Americans say "there's no subsitute for cubic inches" with that XM. I once drove a 2.5td and felt asphyxiated by the lack of power till the turbo entering. I'll never like turbos I'm afraid, pitty... The 12v has about 19kgs of torque at...idle, which develops up to 21 at 4,600rpm. It goes to 110mph with a blip of the throttle. In practice you rarely need to go above 3,000rpm, and usually I change gears at about 2,000.

I've done the clutch also, it was done from underneath just by dropping the subframe a bit on the side of the gearbox, took about 8 hours, clutch was immediately available -which I find strange, maybe I was lucky-. So far after almost 3 years of ownership the only problems enginewise were a dead alternator -but this was not the car's fault (the archliner next to it was broken and it died at the end of a 6 hour veeeery rainy trip to the highlands)-, and a burnt ignition module -the car's fault neither (they had forgotten to add the thermal glue when they lastly did it so it has cooked)-. Oh and I recently changed the main upper cooling hose as it was beyond salvation (new £80, did it alone). Nothing else needed for 3 years/30,000miles, now at 162,000. Soon it will need a back and middle box (they were like new when I brought it to Scotland).

One advice, if u find one after June 1992, they are a bit better electrically, and they are Hydractive II (steering wheel is an ugly two-branched instead of classic Citroen monobranch). Mine's an April 1994, a late S"1.5". It has no rust at all but I suspect British cars are worse -this one's a German import-.

All in all, this is the ultimate XM; this is just how they shoudl all be if petrol money was not a matter (BTW mine averages 24mpg mixed but I suspect it can do better as I have a faulty vehicle speed sensor). David Hallworth who sometimes writes here recently said his 24v PRV does 28mpg. If you find a 24v PRV, don't hesitate either (make sure it has a replacement engine). It's not more or less reliable than the 12v, just that you may find it difficult on some parts (I guess). Depends how decided and "networked" you are! I aim to get one of those within the next 1-2 years -don't know what I'll do with the 12v, I'd like to keep it also-.

anything else I can help with, just say.

regards
George

[Andmcit]

On Autotrader



1990 H Reg CITROEN XM 3.0 V6 SEi

Price:
£795

Features:

* 103,000 miles
* Manual
* GOLD
* Petrol
* Hatchback
* H reg (1990)

Full Description:

Glossary of Terms

5 Doors, Manual, Hatchback, Petrol, 103,000 miles, Metallic Gold.
Air conditioning, Alloy wheels, Central locking, Cruise control, Electric
mirrors, Electric windows, Electric sunroof, Foglights, Electrically
adjustable seats, Full service history, Heated seats, Leather seats,
Immobiliser, Power assisted steering, Radio/Cassette, Towbar.
Insurance Group:14, m.o.t and tax till dec-2007 £795
Seller:

Carsworth of Glemsford

Dealer's Website: Go to website

Contact number: 01787 281818



Happy shopping

Andrew

[mtxm]

Hi George and Andrew, I really appreciated your further advice on the pros and cons of the V6 and details of the car for sale. I had spotted the SEI, which was one of the reasons for seeking opinions in fact! As the car is relatively local I will probably take a look and I shall let you know how I get on. All the best once again, Matthew T.

[David Hallworth]

The 24v PRV engines used to drop the valves due to using the same valve gear from the 12v engines. This valve gear wasnt strong enough to take 4 valves per cylinder so the engine used to start dropping valves.

To resolve this problem, Citroen re-designed the valve gear and gave each individual valve its own gearing and put ceramic followers on the cam shafts to solve this problem.

Citroen spent a fortune developing the engine and then stopped using it within 3 years.

My V6 - 24v will average 28mpg on a good run on the motorway, around town it drops to between 20 and 21mpg, but have had it up to 30mpg when really feathering the throttle.

They are quite heavy on tyres if you drive them like a V6. As for motorway cruising i am still to find a suitable car to replace my V6-24v. My mates seem to think that having a V6 XM at 20 is not a good image, but as i do so much motorway driving i am determined to keep it.

If you fancy a trip to Glasgow with a trailer, you could always have this one:

V6 24x Series 1 XM For Sale

Gordon from here is selling it, the gearbox on it needs overhauled and it needs a new clutch due to oil contamination.

Pretty sure he'd sell it for £200.

David.

This post has been edited by David Hallworth on June 12, 2007 10:45 am

[citroenxm]

mtxm

I doubt VERY much you'll find a S1 SEi MANUAL V6, nearly all, about 98% were autos. ONLY early, around G reg, cars were manual then the auto box was fitted..

In my experiance I'd stick with the auto as the manuals can blow diffs.. however, the auto box is not perfect either.. Both boxes have weaknesses..

Good luck with your search

Regards
citroenxm

[Andmcit]

I've got 4 manual V6's and never had a diff problem!?

That said, I've two v6 auto's that only go backwards...

Andrew

[citroenxm]

Andmcit,
No wonder we cant find them!!

I'll be fitting a DERV box to the 24v later this year, I've managed to locate one from a 2.1td car!

Hang onto those good boxes, mind you, if they are parked up, I guess they wont blow diffs!

Regards
ctroenxm

[Andmcit]

I'm lost, is this the one that Gordon is selling that needs a manual gearbox?

I've got a spare box...

Yes, OK OK, they're parked up - my cunning ploy to keep the annual mileages
down on them all by rota'ing them - bit like Arsenal players!!

Andrew