Hi,

I am looking to buy a large diesel estate manual and although Volvo etc are the obvious ones, I have always been interested in the wierdness that is Citroen.

Info seems hard to find. It would have to be manual diesel - which engine is best ? why?

Can you get a 7 seat conversion with the extra seats in the boot like on volvo/audi/merc?

I am reading the problems etc but what are the expensive things (brother is a mechanic, so labour is reasonable, though he is more VAG than 'crappy french shit' as he called them)

Is there reasonaBLY EASILY AVAILABLE WORKSHOP MANUALS AND DIAGNOSTICS SOFTWARE?

is there much parts sharing with other PSA group cars ? or are spares getting to be a problem ?

thanks
Mark

sorry for the caps - daughter trying to jump on laptop.

Any specialists in north yorkshire ? harrogate / york area ?

ta

Hi Mark,

You do of course realise you're going to get a very biased answer in here !?!

Personally I don't like the auto's, I'm a manual fan myself. Having discovered diesel as a fuel through the 2.5TD I can say without contradiction that diesel is now the fuel of choice. Gone are the days of the smoky, diry tractor image. The modern, electronically controlled diesel engine is a work of pure art. If you like to feel a bit of torque in the small of your back when you gently press on the loud button then a turbo diesel is for you.

Citroen Factory manuals are available for all models so there's no problems there. As for problem solving you have the collective minds and experiences of at least 350 avid members of this forum who are always anxious to help as can be seen by taking a trawl through the posts.

I know of no 7-seat conversion for the estates although someone may correct me on this.

Spares are getting more scarce but no more so than any other car of the same era.

Simple diagnostic software is available but the detailed stuff which talks to the ecu's dynamically is not available anywhere. A few members have the garage equipment which they've bought at liquidation sales and the like. There are a few IT buffs working on trying to crack it though.

Hope all this persuades you to join the ranks of the great unwashed.

Cheers

noz

Hi Mark

I agree completely with Noz's comments and from my own research I know that there is no other car to equal the XM. I have been doing a lot of web bashing, looking at specifications, road tests and more importantly technical forums to find a possible replacement for the XM when the time comes...and there isn't one.

I run a manual 2.1 td estate and I have found no other car of its size that rides and handles as well, has as much internal space and is as economical. All other cars without hydropnumatic suspension are at best a compromise between ride and handling, the XM gives the best of both worlds with its auto adjusting suspension.

They are also very durable, not necessarily reliable, but durable, if you are prepared to do the necessary work to keep them going, they last almost forever. My previous XM td estate had covered 292 k miles when I sold it and was still going. You do though have to be able to maintain it yourself or the cost could prove prohibitive.

I personally favour the 2.1 td as it is very ecomnomical and pretty well bombproof and easier to work on than the 2.5 (you will note 'easier' not easy) but the 2.5 has more power and a hydraulic clutch which makes for a more pleasant driving experience, Noz runs one of these but is much braver than me!

They are as you have found becoming very scarce although good ones do pop up from time to time, keep your eyes on the Autotrader web site and also Ebay. Mk 1s (pre late 94) are best avoided unless you can find a very low mileage example. I could have bought a '96 85k mile 2.1 td estate a couple of months ago, I went and tried and it was excellent, I procrastinated over it, as mine was still going well, until it was to late, I think it went for £1000. You will have to be prepared to travel anywhere in the country to get what you want, I have, and I have! There have been a few nice 2.5s about, if you've got the bottle!

Peter.N.

Thanks for those replies.

I have seen comments about 'multiplex' - whats that then? And should I care ?

How easy do people find the foot (hand) brake with a manual ?

I am a confirmed tdi man anyway (last 3 estates all tdi, two audi and a volvo). I have to say that looking at noz's posts the 2.5 sounds, ahhh, 'interesting' as an option.

How much faster/worse economy does the 2.5 get over the 2.1 ?

I would say that my leaning would be to the 2.1 on the basis that the engine is used in other vehicles so parts/replacement should be easy if the need arose.

Is there a check list to work through if looking at a car ? Can I easily check for error codes on the tdi, I know that on some cars the petrol models are obdc2 but the diesels are not and are more difficult to interogate.

thanks again.

Mark

Right (1) Multiplex - not applicable to the XM but as far as I know the C5 has got it. Everything is switched on and off by a computer, not a route I am keen on going down.

(2) Foot operated parking brake. Strange at first but you soon get used to it, not good for learners.

(3) TDIs are more economical and quieter than IDIs when they are working right. IDI much simpler, less fragile and cheaper to repair, especially on most 2.1s as they are not electronically managed.

(4) 2.1 v 2.5 economy. Not a tremendous difference but if you use the extra power you will of course use more fuel.

(5) yes your theory about the 2.1 parts is correct, they are more readily available.

(6) Most of the 2.1 are fully mechanical unless you get a very late one, but most of the late ones are auto. So you cant interrogate them! but in the unlikely event af a fault it will be much easier to find. The first thing to look for is head gasket leakage, anything over about 120K miles is a likely candidate although they have been known to go on to 200K. They are a pig to change, I know, I've done one.

Peter.N.

Hi Mark

Just to pick up on a few points:

I have seen 7 seat-converted XM estate, on ebay a while back...so they do exist but must be incredibly rare.
Some VERY late model XM's do have multiplex wiring, I'm told, but not heard of this being a problem.

Was going to say very nice looking 2.1 Manual at XM Centre atm, but must have sold in last few days, keep an eye on www.citroencentre.co.uk though.

Hi

ALSO Check out http://www.citroen-mechanics.co.uk/

GREAT guy, had Two XM's off him now, no 4, has an honest word, tells no lies, what hear is what you get.

Click the Cars for Sale link on left, HE HAS a 2.1TD Estate, Manual in at the moment. also looks like he has a 2.5TD estate in too. But best ring him.


Regards
citroenxm

Hi Mark
There was an aftermarket 7 seat conversion for an XM Estate a few months ago on Ebay.I think it cost quite a few hundred pounds when new,but there were no bids on it at £49 if I recall.
I have just changed(enforced)from a 2.1 MK1 Diesel Estate to a 2.5 MK2 Diesel estate-both manuals.
My MK1 wasn't the best of examples,so to compare it to the later car is maybe unfair.The MK1 really felt like a 1980's car but the MK2 is much more like a modern car.Re the economy I could get around 49/50mpg on a run at around 70-75mph in the MK1 but have just done a trip around France and got 42.6 out of the MK2.You will use the performance more-its instinctive,you don't buy an XM to race around in,but the 2.5 has a bit of OOOMPH!If you can work on them or have a mate then all well and good,but they are cheap enough at the moment to go and buy another in the event of a major problem.My MK1 cost me £650 and then 15 months later my MK2 cost me £620 with full service history and a pile of receipts for work done,it has done 112K and has Aircon.It does have a problem regarding the auxilliary belt that I am trying to get solved but it was still a cheap car.
If you drive mainly on the motorways of England and Europe and want an enormous load space(I could fit 24 fruit boxes with loads of room to spare in mine with the seats etc removed),then it is a great comfortable car,if you do mainly town driving you realise how big it is especially when it comes to parking.
Regards Rob

Thanks guys,

the citroen centre is quite a long way away (Im near ripon/harrogate) so I would prefer to find something nearer.

thanks for the info on the 7seat conversion. I have it in the volvo and it is rather handy with running various kids about - never thought about it until I got it - now would prefer to have it if possible.

I saw the citroen mechanic site - he has a car on ebay that links through.

I am having problems getting my head round prices.

he has two diesel estates

this one is on ebay as well -
1996 n reg citroen xm 2.1td vsx estate in dark blue
133000 miles 6 months tax 12 months test
some rust spots dont be put off drives fine.Toe bar
serviced new rear suspension spheres
£995

and

1996 citroen xm 2.5 td est in green
188000 miles taxed and tested
new hydraulic suspension spheres,regulator and pump
1 company owner from new,.loads spent
[slight heavy steering problem__ will cure before sold ]
£1995.00


What justifies £1K difference for the higher miles car ? just the engine ?

compare to this one

1997 P Reg CITROEN XM 2.5 TD VSX
5 Doors, Manual 5 speed, Estate, Diesel, 52,722 miles, Metallic Green, MOT-06-2007, 3 Owners. Full service history, Power-Assisted Steering, Electric sunroof, Electric windows, Remote Central Locking, Immobilizer, Alarm, Driver Air Bag, Passenger Air Bag, Stereo Radio Cassette, Electric mirrors, Front Fog Lights, Height Adjustable Front Seats, Adjustable Steering Column, Roof rails, Front armrest, Rear armrest.
£1795

And various ones elsewhere for £500 upwards.

Im tempted by the bottom one, its near me, sounds good.

Whats the timing belt interval ? 60K ? Is it easy to get leather interior from a breaker and swap it into an estate ? (kiddy sick on fabric seats isnt pleasant)

Hi Marks

A few thoughts.
The timing belt interval is 72k.
Multiplexing is a fact of life over the series 2 XM's. They started introducing it in May 1994 for the odd function in some models. Each year a few more functions became multiplexed. It is just a simple system that uses resistance to generate different voltages in one wire instead of using a number of separate wires for each function. For example in the 1994 upmarket models the heated seat switches were multiplexed to provide 3 heat settings using the same single wire loom that had been used in Mk1 XM's. In some late 1995 cars the dipping passenger wing mirror was multiplexed. All small items that are just a nuisance only if you have to fault find in that item of kit.
I think the low milage and history of your final car seems to put it as better value than the others. The fact that is close to hand is a bonus. For reference I gave £1400 last month for a 98R 2.5 estate with working aircon that had done 120k.
The changing the seats for leather can be done but there are a few pitfalls particularly as estate and car back seats are different in size. The have been a few forum entries and replies about leather seats. Do not wait around for a car that is a already leather fitted. There were very few MK2 estates that were built that way and the odd 2.5 one to turn up fetches a real premium.

Hope this helps

Regards

XMexc

citroenxm -

Thanks for the info on the XMs for sale, I thought they were all on Ebay or Autotrader!

XMexc -

You learn something every day. I didn't know that about multiplexing on the XM!

marks -

That 2.1 manual for £995 sounds pretty good, as long as the head gasket is OK, and its not green!!!

Peter.N.

ummmm.

Possibly not that good a buy - look at the listing on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-CITROEN-XM-VSX-...1QQcmdZViewItem

Oh dear!