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krassegränd
Hello!
I live in Sweden and we have a fuel (I guess it is the same in the rest of Eorope) called E85. It consist of 15% petrol and 85% etanol (alkohol). I have found information on how to konvert my XM V6 to this fuel. It seemes to be fairly simple. Apart from the exchanging fuelhoses the only thing needed is to raise the fuelpressure so that the engine gets 20-40% more fuel.
Any commens about this?
Jörgen
krassegränd
I have now converted the car (XM V6 -91) and it is working very well with only 1,2 bars extra fuel pressure. One problem had to be solved. It is the starting problems when the temperature is lower than +10°C, meaning almost every morning. It can be solved by temporarely adding a resistor in serie with the termistor that tells the computer the engine temerature. This is to make the computer think that is is much colder than it is in real life. I am using a relays normaly closed pin that opens when current from the sonenoid is connected to the relay over a switch in the car, and a 4,7kOhm termistor. This means that the original termistor is workin normaly all the time accept when the switch is on and the starter is running.

Jörgen
jorgy9
Hi Jorgen,

what are the benefits of this fuel? How do you get it? Can you still use the car with standard petrol if you want, like with an LPG installation?

Regards
George
noz
Hi Jorgen,

An interesting development on the alcohol front. There was a news item about 2-3 weeks ago on the national TV news in the UK. The subject was a supermarket chain (morrisons) who had just launched the new fuel at a few filling stations (which are located on the same sites as their supermarkets in southern England). The new fuel contained a proportion of alcohol, I cant remember the %age. Apparently there are a couple of models (Ford Focus + ?) which are fitted with an engine which can use any ratio of petrol v's alcohol. The theory behind this I think is that if they were to launch an alcohol-only engine it would never sell because there were not enough garages selling the fuel. However, it has the flexibility to fill up with alcohol, but if you cant find a garage selling alcohol, just fill up with petrol as normal. Apparently the sensors linked to the engine management system can measure the mix and alter the injection timing and duration accordingly.

The most startling figure they quoted was the increase in power output of a 20%/80% petrol/alcohol mix as being 20% greater than petrol on its own. Of course if you don't use that additional power (ie keeping the throttle at the same position as normal) then you gain the benefit of improved fuel consumption.

The problem with any biologically derived fuel has always been the same. The Brazilians have been running their cars on alcohol for the last 30 years or more. To make the fuel economic the base material must be high in carbohydrate(sugar). This means that the crop must be grown in a climate with a high number of sun-hours per year. (you don't get very high carbohydrate levels in crops grown in a country with a climate like the UK's). The Brazilians make their alcohol out of sugar cane for example. Now comes the moral dilemma. Can the world stand by, watching starving farmers in the third world, growing crops they cant eat, to be turned into fuel for the rich west? What would be even worse would be that existing fields currently growing food crops would be converted to grow a fuel crop. The food supply problem would only get worse than it is today.

There's nothing worse than a technological solution to a problem with a nightmare political and moral kick in the teeth. Having said that, where one supermarket is leading the way today, tomorrow others will follow. In a market driven (global) economy, suppliers will flourish to meet an increasing demand. Thats just the way it works.

(Soap box put away for another day)

cheers

noz cool.gif
mebedforduk
Hi Noz

Moral dilema - another take on it.
A few (as a % of the population) in the third world countries *may* become richer by growing fuel food and hopefully this could then be passed down the chain of workers etc to produce a capatilist economy where the "workers" are able to afford more food as a country and as individuals. Or not........


Not sure if alcohol will take off. LPG is just as good but still stumbles to make any headway.

Now if we talk about Veg oil.......

Hey have you noticed that Sainsburys oil is better than tescos? As for Asda, always sold out. Makro the same but then its only 42p/litre.

Running well on midway betwen 33 & 50% mix

Mark

noz
Hi Mark,

The problem is they might have enough money now, given your scenario, but then they'd have to import food because all of their farming land has been converted to growing fuel crops rather than food crops. The companies behind the schemes will declare their profits in another country rather than the country of origin so then the food imports cause a balance of payments problem. I'm not arguing here from some personal moral standpoint (I dont really have one) rather arguing the case to hear what the proponents see as to the long term solution to this 'problem'. To date I've nevr heard a rational argument which works. As I say, this debate is not a new one. They were talking about the same thing in Brazil 30 years ago.

On the Veggie oil front (probably need a new thread for this topic rather than dilute this interesting one) have you found any other differences from pure diesel ie power, economy, engine noise, torque, cold starting? Please start a new thread on this one because I've got some related interest we'll explore.

Cheers

noz
Xmauritius
HI Noz, been thinking about doing an ethanol conversion on my car, but the government here is taking too long to do anything about supplying it.
Here in Mauritius our main production is sugar cane but with cut in price next year by 37% on the world market its to our advantage that sugar is used to make ethanol instead of paying a huge amount to import petrol.
In the meantime i'll probably convert the car to run on gas instead.

Rouben.
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