All,

Whilst the XM represents excellent value for money and a pleasure to drive, there comes a time when the reliability is not sufficient to engender the trust of one's spouse and the brood. In fact there are definite rumblings in the ranks and some outright dissent. Therefore it may be time to upgrade the main family car and towing vehicle for something which will not attract so much ill-disguised ire. And so my attention turns to the various choices in the market place.

I have been looking at C6s recently. I did take one for a test drive about 5 years ago and I'm sure I wrote about it in these pages although I can't find the post now. Whilst it seemed fine at the time I'm concerned that the 2.7 is only available with the Tiptronic gearbox. I hate autos with a passion. I just cannot stand the high engine revs before they change up. I nearly always change up before 2000rpm so it avoids the high engine revs between changes. I also don't like the fuel consumption principally because of the inefficiency of the torque converter. I presume it has a lock up clutch which bypasses the TC in top but I'd like to be able to confirm that. I think I'll need to find another one locally to take it for a test drive, looking out specifically for gear changes and fuel consumption.

The C6 is also in the highest band for Road Tax at a whopping £430 per year compared to £210 or so for the XM.

Anyone else had a hankering after a C6? Would you care to share your thoughts?

cheers

noz

Had same problem re family! Whilst the XM 2.5TD Estate did really well over 9 years I had it, it had just so many small niggles and I couldn't keep on top of them following my father's illness / death and my mother having dementia etc.

I did look at a C6 briefly (without ever having driven one to be fair), but felt it was likely to be another french top of the range having all the toys that sometimes worked. Reasoned that C6 prices would be very low, but that parts may be very awkward to get as basically the car has been dumped by Peugeot Citroen and the number of RHD cars was very small. Think I read somewhere recently that in future Peugeot were going to do all the upmarket cars , with Citroen doing the el cheapo's and the mid-priced DS range. The 2.7HDI engine though is something else!

As an aside, I saw a very impressive C5 cabriolet in Paris showroom a couple of weeks ago- it seemed much bigger than any of the C5' s I'd seen previously - was I imagining it or was it an optical illusion. Nice looking car, but an open top is not for me.

So, despite its very poor bootspace, I defected and ended up with a 2.7SE Jaguar S-Type with a manual gearbox - I don't trust autobox longevity and the fuel consumption is worse too. With the SE, you get plenty of toys. They are surprisingly inexpensive to buy, but insurance (circa £600), parts (you can of course use 2.7HDI Citroen parts for engine) and labour are expensive. If you do try this route and you want built in satnav and a towbar, make sure the car you want has them already fitted as they are very expensive to add later. Build quality is good, interior sound levels very low and performance great [143mph, 8.1 secs 0-60, 206BHP, torque 320lbs/ft). Picked up £600 bill for repairs to pipes on both cats . Don't bother to go out in snow though (RWD!) . Insurance is £215 - presumably as its got a DPF - The C6 has the same engine, presumably without an effective DPF as its emissions are pants. With your skills, transfer to a Jaguar (if you can bear the defection) should be a piece of cake. Sadly, DPF is a complete nightmare. Restricted performance, won't regenerate. I've just had it replaced cost circa £1370!!
Consumption is generally in range 27-42 depending on what type of journeys you make and how you drive. Actually got 47 from Cambridge to Huddersfield.
Definitely got the thumbs up from the wife!
Son, nearly 21 asked how much to add him to insurance .......

Hi Noz

That could have been written by me, I also have a hating of auto boxes for all the reasons you stated plus if they go wrong they can write the car off. I drove an auto XM once and that was enough.

I have gone down the C5 route, although I didn't like them when they came out I am warming to it, it has the same roomy interior and comfortable ride as the XM and the 2.0. Hdi is brilliant on fuel, they are generally easier to work on too. I still have one XM but rarely get to see it as my son drives it.

I have not had any personal experience of the C6 but it certainly sounds a nice car with the exception of the gearbox, I have heard good reports of the engine and the whole car seems very luxurious. I would go for another ride in one and get an up to date experience.

Peter

Hi Noz

Robert Smart should check in here before too long.
He is on his second Pug 407 with the 2.7 engine.
He says fuel economy is roughly the same as the 2.5 XM.
Performance somewhat better, parts can be expensive.

John

A quick question do the early C6's avoid the stupid car tax band? I ahve been watching prices on these, and was wondering whihc came first, the C6 or the super gas guzzler tax band? if the C6 then the earlier ones won't cost anything like as much to tax

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments above. I did try another test drive of a C6 2.7HDi in Edinburgh about 3 weeks ago. It had multiple problems including rock hard suspension. It also did not have tiptronic gear change. Therefore, I can only conclude that there are several trim options within the C6 2.7HDi range some of which have tiptronic and some which dont. I felt that the problems were likely to result in some hefty repair bills and the auto box just sealed it for me. At that point I decided a C6 was not for me.

I then started looking for the next size down, a C5. I had to do a bit of research to find the model which suited me. I went to my local Arnold Clark Citroen agent and picked their brains. I found out that the only model which has hydropneumatic suspension was the Exclusive. All others have conventional suspension. THen there's the engine size. Having run 2.5TDs for the last 10 years I didn't want to go back to anything smaller so the largest engine size (apart from the 2.7 and 3.0 which both have auto boxes) then that left the 2.0 and 2.2. I started to search for the 2.2s on sale until I found out that the 2.2 engine has ATP (anti-tuning protection). In other wirds it cannot be remapped through the OBD socket. Since my long term aim was one of economy I decided this was not for me. The 2.0 has 138BHP as standard, remappable to 170BHP which is more than enough for me. Its the 12% o so increase in mpg which is the real bonus.

Towing a caravan means requiring a large boot into which all the normal holiday clobber goes. The C5 saloons have a pitifully small boot so the only option was the estate. As it happens, I prefer the shape of the estate or Tourer as its called, which is true of most cars. I've always preferred the hatchback or estate versions of cars over their saloon counterparts. They always seem to finish the back of the car off in a more stylish manner than the booted versions.

Sticking with shape for a second, I thought the Series 1 C5s looked absolutely awful. They were a styling disaster. However, when the series 2 came out in 2008 they really fixed that problem. The saloon and tourer look much more distnguished now.

So far we have argued that it must be 2008 and beyond for styling, Exclusive for the hydropneumatic suspension, Tourer for looks and space and 2.0hdi for remappability(sp?). Lastly we have colour. THe colour choice is generally poor (second-hand) being mainly black, silver grey or white. There are some reasonably rare "Wicked Red" C5s around which look absolutely stunning. I tried very hard to get a red one and failed and settled for the metallic grey. If a red came up at the right price I'd be tempted to buy it and sell the grey one.

So there we have it. 3 weeks ago I bought a C5 2.0HDi Exclusive in metallic grey. I have to say it is a nice car, very comfortable and bristling with gadgets. However, I do fear that all of these electronics are going to fail and be a nightmare to fix. Ho hum. Such is the life of Citroen ownership.

I'll write about the C5 in the C5 section over the next few months as I learn more about it.

Cheers

noz

So now we have narrowed it do

Hey, I'm sorry I missed this thread but I'm glad you found an answer. I was going to try to convince you that a C6 is quite a joy to own but if the Auto box is a deal breaker that's the end of it. C6 is just like an XM in terms of reliability. My 100,000 miles (starting at 23k) on a 06 car has been fine after suspension teething problems were sorted out - amounted to a full rebuild at about 60,000 miles - no problems since. Maybe the replacement parts had been improved as there were a lot of problems initially. After that I had a coolant pipe / distributor failure. Messy but not hideously expensive job at Citroen garage. Headlight bulbs failed Xenon = expensive (€100 each) and one ballast (€250). It is more expensive to run than XM 2.5 but it brings a smile every time. Killer blow coming! The auto box is now misbehaving - false neutrals and then whack into gear. I understand (HOPE ITS TRUE) that a simple change of very expensive auto transmission fluid will sort that. All in all its a joy but I did get by- way of haggle- a five year guarantee which turned out to be a MB&G insurance policy which covered the coolant leak, in hindsight money off might have been better. On balance its great if you don't mind the extra expense. I still get a buzz out of driving the XM but most days I would take the C6 just for the extra power and the toys. Suspension is much harsher but still way better than springs and shocks! It also appears that just like XM's you can get a bad one!
Please let me know how your C5 is working out as I am on the hunt for one myself.

Hi Noz

I have a C5 but its an early one which are worth very little now but are very simple compared to the new ones. It has the 8 valve Hdi engine which has no DPF and is very simple to work on, I also have a 406 with the same engine with around 200,000 miles on both of them and no serious faults in that time, they both have original DMFs and are very good on fuel, 60+mpg the way I drive but 50mpg shouldn't be difficult for a normal person.

My first C5 was a 2.2 but the fuel consumption was terrible, you could just about average 40mpg whereas the 2.0. will easily average 50mpg but that of course is the old engine they have probably improved them now but the 2.2 is renowned for poor consumption.

I agree with you about the looks but the later version of the same car, from about 05 on at least has a better looking front end and they are all hydropnumatic until about 08. The newer ones don't seem to be as easy to work on either.

Be interested to know how you get on.

Peter

Hi,
I hope that you took a picture of it
and thanks for telling us that you actually saw a C5 Cabriolet, other than your mentioning it here, my brother-in law had a C5 in Dubai, UAE, this is going back a few years now, his was a Pearl off white, Navy top, Navy leather seats, it was thought to have been created for a rich arab, who latter had decided not to take delivery, it was still brand new and it was seen at the only Citroen dealership in the UAE, this is when my brother in law came to purchase it, funny enough, it had hydraulic suspension, but no name tags anywhere on the car, it was ordered without the C5 badge, only the front grille as well as any Chevrons on the vehicle was a given that it was a Citroen.


>As an aside, I saw a very impressive C5 cabriolet in Paris showroom a couple of >weeks ago- it seemed much bigger than any of the C5' s I'd seen previously - >was I imagining it or was it an optical illusion. Nice looking car, but an open top is >not for me.


A fellow in the U.K had told me that Citroen had never made a C5 cabriolet, because he knows people at Citroen mother corp.

He never believed me.