Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version timing belt

Club XM Forum > XM General Issues
Pages: 1, 2
yaronlhm
hello


is someone know how hard it is to replaced the timing belt in my xm v6 es9 engine?


thanks
Jan-hendrik
QUOTE (miri agler @ )
hello


is someone know how hard it is to replaced the timing belt in my xm v6 es9 engine?


thanks


I think someone in this community has done the job, but he hasn't come along yet!

IIRC the dealer charges 7 or 8 hours of labor for the job and if you wish to know what is involved you could get yourself a factory manual on CD compiled by a certain Norrie.

Actually I had the job done by the dealer 2 months ago, although someone in the UK had offered to ship me the necessary special tools. Citroen uses about 8 special tools.

A do-it-yourself mechanic who has little experience in this kind of work won't be able to do it in 7 or 8 hours. Expect it to take 2 days.

Doing it yourself will save you some money on the labor, but you still need to shell out a large sum for the parts: it's not just the timing belt that needs replacing, but also the rollers, tensioner, waterpump and auxiliary belt.


noz
Hi Miri,

Yes, I'm sorry I didn't reply having seen your post but I've never had a V6 so I didn't think I was best qualified to give you an answer.

However, I have replaced timing belts before on the 2.5TD. On one occasion I demonstrated it in front of several other XM owners when we met a coupe of years ago. It took me 50minutes in total. The belt is wound around the engine mounting which means the engine mounting must be disconencted. This is the hardest part of the job. Fitting the belt is relatively straightforward.

The V6 timing belt looks to be located in roughly the same position as the 2.5TD so my guess is that the job would be very similar.

I hope that gives you enough confidence to try yourself.

Cheers

noz cool.gif
Jan-hendrik
Noz, I am surprised, to say the least, that you suppose the timing belt change on the V6 to be similar to the job on the DK5. The change on the Diesel is a piece of cake. The V6 ESJ94 is an entirely different story, for one reason that it is a DOHC. The job requires a whole array of special tools not found in the average home mechanic's kit. Citroen also use an electronic gadget to set the tension of the belt.

user posted image
Jan-hendrik
Here an image of the DK5 engine:

user posted image

and one of the V6 ES9J4:

user posted image

Let's not forget the diesel has one (1) single camshaft, driving 3 valves per cylinder on a 4 cylinder engine.
By contrast the ES9J4 has four (4) overhead camshafts, driving 4 valves per cylinder, which makes it the V6-24 valve engine.
noz
Hi Jan,

Are you making your assessment from actually having changed a timing belt on a V6 yourself or is your judgment solely based on the length of the belt and the number of sprockets and pulleys? The number of valves and cylinders is completely irrelevant to difficulty or otherwise of changing the belt. The number of camshafts is of course relevant but only in as much as the number of sprockets to set.

One reason that makes the DK5 easy is that the sprockets are split with the inner part indexed to the cam/pump and the outer part indexed to the belt. The difference is accommodated by the fact that the two halves of the sprocket rotate with respect to one another. To set the DK5 timing it is a simple case of pegging the inner halves of the sprockets to the cam and the pump repectively. When these pegs and the one on the flywheel are in place, the timing is perfect. The belt is then placed around the crank, pump and cam sprockets in an anticlockwise direction finally taking up any slack with the adjuster. The adjuster comes after the last sprocket so that no adjustment of the effective belt length takes place between the crank and the pump/cam. Once the belt is on, the two halves of each sprocket are tightened thus preserving the timing set by the pegs. The pegs themselves have no magic. I use the shaft of the appropriately sized twist drill. I have no special peg sets.
The manual recommends the use of the 'proper' belt tensioning tool for the DK5 as well as the V6 as used by Citroen. As with most of these 'gizmos' they are used because of the uneducated nature of the modern mechanic. It is used to make up for the fact that he has no judgement skills to assess the tightness or otherwise of the fitted belt and needs to use a jig which has engineered out the need for any skill. I use the technique which has been around since the dawn of man. Twist the longest section of belt between the thumb and forefinger. It should not travel as much as 90Deg. I have never used a 'belt tightness' guage in any car and I have probably changed dozens of timing belts in my lifetime. As I said above, the only hard part about the DK5 is the fact that the belt is wound around the engine mounting. The V6 looks no different. If it weren't for that the job would take 30 minutes.

Looking at the sprockets on the V6 they look identical to the DK5 i.e. split. In which case the timing setting procedure will be exactly the same as the DK5. The fact that there are 4 sprockets in stead of 2 is immaterial. Again the adjuster is on the slack side of the belt as with the DK5. The number of idler pulleys is also inconsequential.

Now, if you want to argue that the average XM owner has no DIY skills and cannot assess the tightness of a belt then I have no way of judging that other than their competency displayed in their postings. With no skills to set the belt tension, you do need a gizmo, so unless you have one, you cannot do the job. However, if through these pages someone imparts the skill to you by describing the procedure then there is no reason why you cannot attempt to do the job.

I recently witnessed the changing of a timing belt on the 5 cylinder engine fitted to a Volvo 740 which is the same engine tha is in my fathers Audi A6. In this case the sprockets are not split and there are two adjusters, one on the 'live' side of the belt and one one the 'slck' side. In which case the timing is affected by the relative settings of the two adjusters. For this engine you need a diesel timing light to enable the belt to be tensioned whilst running. Only this way can the timing be set. Compared to the setting of the DK5, the Volvo/Audi engine is a dinosaur.

cheers

noz cool.gif
David Hallworth
If you fancy doing a V6 timing belt Noz, the one on my V6 XM that I imported from Malaysia needs doing!

David.
noz
Hi David,

No problem. Get yourself a belt and name your weekend. You could photograph each stage and we can turn it into a Self Help file. (This weekend is out but the rest are free)

Cheers

noz cool.gif
Jan-hendrik
Dear Noz,

My posting was not intended to irritate you, but to clarify that the job at hand for a novice, instead of someone like you, for the uneducated modern mechanic, who seems to belong to the mechanics you presume to be the ones employed by Citroen, is not as easy as you make it seem. Using twist drills, shaved off bolts or other innovative utensils from the garage and the kitchen, instead of properly machined tools can do the job, I have no doubt. I know because I have had to improvise as an engineer for years.

My 'assessment' is not based on having accomplished the feat myself, but on observation and experience in working on other engines and machinery.

BTW I am familiar with the 5 cylinder Audi engine. My dad owned more than one of these cars and my brother and I worked on them.

In conclusion I wish to say, having owned and worked on (maybe not as many as you) hundreds of cars and their engines, that the jobs at hand are so easy once you know how to, but not to the novice. Competency in a first posting is never apparent. Thank you for explaining why the DK5 is easy. But I still disagree with the generalization 'similar'. No offense.
Jan-hendrik
QUOTE (David Hallworth @ )
If you fancy doing a V6 timing belt Noz, the one on my V6 XM that I imported from Malaysia needs doing!

David.


I know this really is not my business, but why would you go to the trouble of just replacing the timing belt on this fantastic car, I know about, and ignoring the water pump, rollers and tensioners and auxiliary belt? If it it's time for the cam belt, it is time for the other parts as well. You will find out soon after replacing only the cam belt wink.gif
noz
Hi Jan,

Emotion is not something that can easily be transmitted through writing (particularly on a forum) unless you are a professional writer. I can assure you no offence was assumed, taken or intended. My question at the start of my post was a genuine one rather than a rhetorical kick back. I was curious if your experience was first hand or not. I freely admitted mine's was not.

Competency, is a hard judgement to make. I would say, by their postings, that most members on club-xm are reasonably competent DIYers. However, in practice I have no idea if they are competent or not. One therefore, is forced to presume competency unless they demonstrate conclusively otherwise. I assume that if Miri asks how difficult it is then he at least understands the question. If he had no skills at all it is unlikely that he'd be asking the question in the first place. I am conscious that he is a relatively new member of club-xm but if you have a look at his prior posts you will see that he has tackled at least a few jobs including making a bracket to stop his struts going through the bonnet.
As for Citroen's mechanics, I have no first hand experience of their competency since I have never put my car into a garage in my entire life. However, I do hear horror stories from people (friends, family, neighbours, colleagues) who have no DIY skills and are forced to take their cars to the garage. One aspect of that shines bright and clear. They have absolutely no diagnostic skills whatsoever. They rely solely on a sequence of parts replacement and a laptop to solve problems. I stand by my statement that the use of the belt tension tool is a substitute for the lack of skill to make that judgement themselves.

As to how much more difficult the V6 is over the DK5, my estimate was conjecture based on the layout of the belt in your picture. I have not done a V6 and therefore cannot make a practical, first hand comparison. I was originally told that the DK5 was very difficult before I tried it the first time for myself. I would now describe it as 'easy' with the proviso that the engine mounting is a pain.

I'm sure that if Miri tried to replace the belt on my erroneous assessment of the complexity of the job and then got into difficulty, there would be no end of members, myself included, on here trying to help him out, such is the Club-XM community. With this level of safety net I felt that my reply was considered and did not unduly encourage Miri to embark on something for which he was not capable.

Absolutely no offence intended.

Cheers

noz cool.gif
Jan-hendrik
Thank you Noz, your response is very much appreciated.

I must say I am impressed by the fact you have never put a car into a garage ever. Wonder about how long you have been driving/owning cars, but of course that is user posted image
There was a time I and my brothers and even with my wife's assistance we did everything ourselves, but that time is fading.

You know what, you have encouraged me to do some jobs on my XM myself again after deciding I was getting too old for tha sh... Sorry. Fixing a tiny leak at the HP pump, replacing the spheres! I'll keep in touch with my controversial comments.
noz
Hi Jan,

Please be as controversial as you like. Variety is the spice of life after all.

I am a very young 46 so having been driving since I was 17, that makes it 29 years ! I will qualify that statement by saying that I have never owned a machine to change tyres so I do take the car to a kind of garage to have tyres fitted. Am I disqualified?

Actually, I have been driving since I was 4 years old. My father built me a go-kart powered by a 150cc Lambretta engine and I used to race around on a private piece of ground much to the amusement of the neighbours. It was good for 60mph. That would probably be regarded as child abuse in today's context.

I have actually visited Hiroshima some 20 years ago. A Japanese colleague took me to the memorial site below where the bomb exploded and I rang the bell. It was very moving.

Cheers

noz cool.gif
David Hallworth
Hi Noz,

Thanks for your very kind offer. Once I've got all of the bits I'll give you a shout. Citroen want around 800 for the cambelt kit for the car which includes the tensioners, pulleys etc so I'll give you a shout once I've managed to get them.

QUOTE (Jan-hendrik @ )
I know this really is not my business, but why would you go to the trouble of just replacing the timing belt on this fantastic car, I know about, and ignoring the water pump, rollers and tensioners and auxiliary belt? If it it's time for the cam belt, it is time for the other parts as well. You will find out soon after replacing only the cam belt  wink.gif


Jan,

I'm not only changing the belt. It's just easier to write the belt needs doing rather then belt, pulleys, water pump etc needs doing!

I fully intend to change everything including the aux belt and hydraulic pump seals whilst it's stripped down.

David.
yaronlhm
thank you all for the advice .

what kind of tools do i need?pins for the camshaft?

say ?if i dont replace the belt and one day its broken ,is the valve get damge?

after how much km do i have to replace it?
Pages: 1, 2
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here .
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.
Adapted by Shaun Harrison
Translated and modified by Fantome et David, Lafter