Questions attached as a file.
John
Full Version 2.5 Injectors
Hi John,
That's a fine summary of the situation. Apart from the additional info regarding the DJ5 it pretty much sums up my knowledge to date.
I can confirm that my local diesel jockey has never heard of fitting 3 nozzles of one spec and one of another on the same engine at the same time.
When I've replaced my nozzles in the past it has been with a full set of DNOSD316s.
If someone here speaks fluent enough french it might be worth phoning Citroen France direct. Otherwise, writing to Citroen to ask the question might yield some results. Speaking to Citroen UK is like talking to the wall.
Any Bosch agent is again unlikely to be of any direct use but his affiliation with the wider organisation might give him access to technical help that would otherwise be out of reach for the commoner.
I wish I had some answers on this one but you've got as far as I have.
noz
That's a fine summary of the situation. Apart from the additional info regarding the DJ5 it pretty much sums up my knowledge to date.
I can confirm that my local diesel jockey has never heard of fitting 3 nozzles of one spec and one of another on the same engine at the same time.
When I've replaced my nozzles in the past it has been with a full set of DNOSD316s.
If someone here speaks fluent enough french it might be worth phoning Citroen France direct. Otherwise, writing to Citroen to ask the question might yield some results. Speaking to Citroen UK is like talking to the wall.
Any Bosch agent is again unlikely to be of any direct use but his affiliation with the wider organisation might give him access to technical help that would otherwise be out of reach for the commoner.
I wish I had some answers on this one but you've got as far as I have.
noz
Hi John,
My understanding is that new nozzles and pintles are normally supplied in matched sets so it could be that Bosch use nozzle part number DNOSD312 for the three 'ordinary' injector nozzles and pintles for cylinders 1,2 and 4 but use DNOSD316 to distinguish the needle lift sensor injector nozzle and pintle for cylinder 3. The business spraying end of the nozzle and pintle are most likely the same for both types but the pintle stem on the 316 will have an extended length so that its movement can be detected by the coil mounted near the top of the injector.
EDIT I think I have mistakenly assumed that the nozzle needle/pintle and the extension are all one piece whereas in fact they are two separate pieces separated by the lower spring cup. It was a long time ago that I took mine to bits!!
I have cleaned / overhauled / calibrated a set of low mileage Lucas nozzles (from a scrap Peugeot 2.1TD with the EPIC system) for my own 2.1TD XM (not yet fitted). A home made POP tester was used. The hardest part was sourcing an assortment of pressure adjustment shims. UK diesel parts suppliers are not the most cooperative bunch and I finally found some on French ebay which included both solid ones and some with a central hole necessary for the needle lift injector.
I have read somewhere either in a Citroen or Lucas / Delphi manual that overhaul of the Lucas needle lift sensor is forbidden and if faulty should be replaced with a new one -ouch!!. Obviously if the coil goes open circuit then replacement is probably the only option but I can see no good reason why the mechanical bits can't be overhauled - always assuming that the parts can be obtained.
Ken
My understanding is that new nozzles and pintles are normally supplied in matched sets so it could be that Bosch use nozzle part number DNOSD312 for the three 'ordinary' injector nozzles and pintles for cylinders 1,2 and 4 but use DNOSD316 to distinguish the needle lift sensor injector nozzle and pintle for cylinder 3. The business spraying end of the nozzle and pintle are most likely the same for both types but the pintle stem on the 316 will have an extended length so that its movement can be detected by the coil mounted near the top of the injector.
EDIT I think I have mistakenly assumed that the nozzle needle/pintle and the extension are all one piece whereas in fact they are two separate pieces separated by the lower spring cup. It was a long time ago that I took mine to bits!!
I have cleaned / overhauled / calibrated a set of low mileage Lucas nozzles (from a scrap Peugeot 2.1TD with the EPIC system) for my own 2.1TD XM (not yet fitted). A home made POP tester was used. The hardest part was sourcing an assortment of pressure adjustment shims. UK diesel parts suppliers are not the most cooperative bunch and I finally found some on French ebay which included both solid ones and some with a central hole necessary for the needle lift injector.
I have read somewhere either in a Citroen or Lucas / Delphi manual that overhaul of the Lucas needle lift sensor is forbidden and if faulty should be replaced with a new one -ouch!!. Obviously if the coil goes open circuit then replacement is probably the only option but I can see no good reason why the mechanical bits can't be overhauled - always assuming that the parts can be obtained.
Ken
Hi Ken & Noz
Have just gone back through my copy of AutoData and found a little more.
I was wrong about the 2.5 pump on the PUG 605. It is a VP36 but PUG just use the Bosch part number rather than the pump type.
All the PUG DJ5(T9A) Boxer vans use KCE30S5 injectors. These were in production from 1994 to 2002.
The Bosch fitted 1.5D PUG 106's were fitted with KCE30S8 injectors, 120 bar.
So will look for these as well.
John
Have just gone back through my copy of AutoData and found a little more.
I was wrong about the 2.5 pump on the PUG 605. It is a VP36 but PUG just use the Bosch part number rather than the pump type.
All the PUG DJ5(T9A) Boxer vans use KCE30S5 injectors. These were in production from 1994 to 2002.
The Bosch fitted 1.5D PUG 106's were fitted with KCE30S8 injectors, 120 bar.
So will look for these as well.
John
duplicate post removed
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