How realistic is it to use a diesel XM as your only car, everything from school runs, shoping trips and long distance (Dundee to London) high speed driving? My only experience of the XM was a V6 auto estate. As regards basic functions, it was very good, but the ancileries were about as reliable as the banking system!.
I'm not yet able to buy anything (still waiting for the D.V.L.A. to get its digit out) but for practical use I'd be looking for a manual diesel estate. There's a white 2.5 sitting on Ebay with a "£1250 or offer" tag on it. It's been there a while and nobody's bought it yet so maybe the seller would accept a low offer. Any opinions about this vehicle; is there something horribly wrong with it that everyone knows about (except me)? It's being sold by a trader so the consumer protection rules should apply, especially if the 'everything works' description is wrong. As the seller implies that he's as an XM specialist, I think this would strengthen any 'protection' offered.............. Interestingly, on my V6 one thing that worked with no problems; no warning lights was the ABS system.
Final question (until I can think of another one), could someone please tell me the relative merits of the 2.1 and 2.5 diesels?
Full Version Practical Xm.
| QUOTE (combwork @ Jan 22 2009, 12:07 PM) |
| . |
How realistic is it to use a diesel XM as your only car,
everything from school runs, shoping trips and long distance (Dundee to London)
Ok then, here goes....
very realistic, most of it are as reliable as any other car, the bits that do fail you ignore unless its the brakes. (you can ignore abs)
short runs its fine with, long runs its fine with, diesels dont care as much as petrols.
high speed driving?
Stop it its a diesel.... can ton it around at a push, but 80mph very easy, 110, welll, 120, you need me to play with it first.......
looking for a manual diesel estate. There's a white 2.5
sitting on Ebay with a "£1250 or offer" tag on it.
get a 2.1
Final question (until I can think of another one), could someone please tell me the relative merits of the 2.1 and 2.5 diesels?
2.5 harder to get bits for than a 2.1 imho, 2.1 more basic, easier to fix for simple garage mechanics etc.
I have used 2.1 xm's as taxis, and they survive, last one just condemned by council for its age even though it had fully passed its mechanical and emissions test.
Pm'd 
As said, the 2.1 is more simple, better on fuel and easier to maintain. Although 2.1 manual estates are rare (i think Pere.N has the remaining 3
) most seem to be automatics. All 2.5s are manauls.
As said, the 2.1 is more simple, better on fuel and easier to maintain. Although 2.1 manual estates are rare (i think Pere.N has the remaining 3
) most seem to be automatics. All 2.5s are manauls.
Hi Jim
Think one of the members commented that he went to see the WHM white estate and found it dissapointing as far as he was concerned. WHM are one of the few Citroen Indy specialists with a long established reputation. IMHO this can result in over pricing of XM's beyond the normal market price. This will presumably be balanced by a peiod of support/repair if needed. You are a very long way from Diss and it could be very costly to move/transport the car to obtain that support. Current normal market prices for XM's and the age/condition of the cars are such that most motor traders are only willing to dispose of them by trade sale. Similarly ebay prices seldom pass £500. With both of these options you are really in the area of buyer beware, understand what you are buying. Speak to and leave your name and telephone number with the local Citroen dealers saying you would like to look at any XM's that get traded in to consider buying as a trade car. You just might get offered the odd one owner, low mileage, well maintained car that comes on P EX. If they know you are not looking for ongoing support you might just get it for the £300 they begruddingly gave the customer.
Citroen diesels are fine, no different to use, just a little more fuel efficient than petrol cars. There are no areas of use where I have found a diesel at a dissadvantage. The 2.5TD has the engine bay a little more tightly packed than a V6 so if anything goes wrong it is harder to work on than the more spacious engine bay of the 2.1TD. Parts can be easier to get and cheaper for a 2.1 as well. You need to be a little cautious of any 2.1 with an autobox (most were after 96) simply because they can fail completely and write the car off. That said overall the differences between the two diesel XM's are small. I just happen to prefer the extra performace of the 2.5 and am willing to pay the extra for bits and fuel as it is still cheaper than running V6's.
John
Think one of the members commented that he went to see the WHM white estate and found it dissapointing as far as he was concerned. WHM are one of the few Citroen Indy specialists with a long established reputation. IMHO this can result in over pricing of XM's beyond the normal market price. This will presumably be balanced by a peiod of support/repair if needed. You are a very long way from Diss and it could be very costly to move/transport the car to obtain that support. Current normal market prices for XM's and the age/condition of the cars are such that most motor traders are only willing to dispose of them by trade sale. Similarly ebay prices seldom pass £500. With both of these options you are really in the area of buyer beware, understand what you are buying. Speak to and leave your name and telephone number with the local Citroen dealers saying you would like to look at any XM's that get traded in to consider buying as a trade car. You just might get offered the odd one owner, low mileage, well maintained car that comes on P EX. If they know you are not looking for ongoing support you might just get it for the £300 they begruddingly gave the customer.
Citroen diesels are fine, no different to use, just a little more fuel efficient than petrol cars. There are no areas of use where I have found a diesel at a dissadvantage. The 2.5TD has the engine bay a little more tightly packed than a V6 so if anything goes wrong it is harder to work on than the more spacious engine bay of the 2.1TD. Parts can be easier to get and cheaper for a 2.1 as well. You need to be a little cautious of any 2.1 with an autobox (most were after 96) simply because they can fail completely and write the car off. That said overall the differences between the two diesel XM's are small. I just happen to prefer the extra performace of the 2.5 and am willing to pay the extra for bits and fuel as it is still cheaper than running V6's.
John
Hi John, it was me who went to view the 2.5 estate at WHM. I think Xms prices will rise, but im sure you can find others for sale for less, its just a question of waiting.
Thats a great way to find an Xm, id never have thought of that! Im not sure how many will still be getting traded in but im sure a few still do, as the ony on autotrader proves.
Chris.
Thats a great way to find an Xm, id never have thought of that! Im not sure how many will still be getting traded in but im sure a few still do, as the ony on autotrader proves.
Chris.
I have a 2.5 and it is my only car (the wife has a 306, but she often uses it so I could not consider it as a backup).
I use it daily to commute (25 miles each way, mostly motorway) as well as the usual around town and occasional longer trips for holidays or relatives.
I have found it to be completely reliable. Yes, things go wrong with it - but they can/will with any car of any age.
I have only had it let me down properly once - that was a frosty morning one autumn when the battery packed up. I had had the warning signs but not got round to sorting it, so my own fault. I think I have had 2 cases of unexpected garage appearances, one was rust build up on a wheel hub which was a bit odd, and one was a coolant leak on the radiator. Both cases I got it to the garage and it was a fairly quick fix.
The 306 has been far less reliable, but that is another story involving head gaskets, radiators, clutches with supposedly only 30K on them, siezed brake drums, broken subframe mounts etc etc. Most recently an exhaust that fell of with no warning.
At least the XM gave me a good 6 months warning before the exhaust started sparking on the tarmack - but that is one point in the 2.1s favour. Some odd parts for the 2.5 can be hard to source such as the exhaust which took me 6 months to find and only arrived after one of the boxes was in the boot.
I get all sorts of niggles like leaking aerials, blower motor stopping due to fuse problems, but they are all easily fixable and nothing to prevent it being a reliable car - just a bit of attention required now and then which I would expect of any car of that age with that level of spec.
However, I would point out that mine is a well maintained car that I know was well maintained all its life. When I got it I knew that my indy had been maintaining it since it was a couple of years old with no expense spared. Many of the cars for sale are probably not that well looked after so will take some TLC to get back to that kind of condition/reliability.
As for high speed driving it is a perfect car for the motorway. It is also a surprisingly good car for those fast/exciting roads. It is no sports car, but you can throw it around at a surprising pace for the size. This is where the 2.1 is no match for the 2.5. The 2.5 can go some and a ton is no effort for it. I've obviously never found out it's top speed and of course I have never driven it over 70 on the road
but it can manage 110 and still have more to give. It takes a special kind of car to keep up with it on roundabouts that I know well.
I use it daily to commute (25 miles each way, mostly motorway) as well as the usual around town and occasional longer trips for holidays or relatives.
I have found it to be completely reliable. Yes, things go wrong with it - but they can/will with any car of any age.
I have only had it let me down properly once - that was a frosty morning one autumn when the battery packed up. I had had the warning signs but not got round to sorting it, so my own fault. I think I have had 2 cases of unexpected garage appearances, one was rust build up on a wheel hub which was a bit odd, and one was a coolant leak on the radiator. Both cases I got it to the garage and it was a fairly quick fix.
The 306 has been far less reliable, but that is another story involving head gaskets, radiators, clutches with supposedly only 30K on them, siezed brake drums, broken subframe mounts etc etc. Most recently an exhaust that fell of with no warning.
At least the XM gave me a good 6 months warning before the exhaust started sparking on the tarmack - but that is one point in the 2.1s favour. Some odd parts for the 2.5 can be hard to source such as the exhaust which took me 6 months to find and only arrived after one of the boxes was in the boot.
I get all sorts of niggles like leaking aerials, blower motor stopping due to fuse problems, but they are all easily fixable and nothing to prevent it being a reliable car - just a bit of attention required now and then which I would expect of any car of that age with that level of spec.
However, I would point out that mine is a well maintained car that I know was well maintained all its life. When I got it I knew that my indy had been maintaining it since it was a couple of years old with no expense spared. Many of the cars for sale are probably not that well looked after so will take some TLC to get back to that kind of condition/reliability.
As for high speed driving it is a perfect car for the motorway. It is also a surprisingly good car for those fast/exciting roads. It is no sports car, but you can throw it around at a surprising pace for the size. This is where the 2.1 is no match for the 2.5. The 2.5 can go some and a ton is no effort for it. I've obviously never found out it's top speed and of course I have never driven it over 70 on the road
but it can manage 110 and still have more to give. It takes a special kind of car to keep up with it on roundabouts that I know well.
Hi Chris & Jim
I see WHM have put a white 2.5 estate on ebay as breaking, is it the same one?
On XM prices Chris I think there are still a lot more Mk2's about that will need new homes in the next couple of years or so. I expect this to keep the general prices down.
There will always be a very small specialist market for a few highpriced XM's. My guess is that less than 5% of all XM's now being sold will change hands for this sort of money. I actually think that this is now a particularly high risk way of buying an XM. I have looked at quite a few over the years and IMHO typically found that 4 out of 5 of these "exceptional" cars did not justify all the claims made of them. Not suggesting that they were missrepresented simply that the completeness of history and records of massive service expenditure by the previous owner(s) become less important as the cars approach or have passed 150k miles compared to driving well and most important the physical examination of the whole car particularly underneath.
John
I see WHM have put a white 2.5 estate on ebay as breaking, is it the same one?
On XM prices Chris I think there are still a lot more Mk2's about that will need new homes in the next couple of years or so. I expect this to keep the general prices down.
There will always be a very small specialist market for a few highpriced XM's. My guess is that less than 5% of all XM's now being sold will change hands for this sort of money. I actually think that this is now a particularly high risk way of buying an XM. I have looked at quite a few over the years and IMHO typically found that 4 out of 5 of these "exceptional" cars did not justify all the claims made of them. Not suggesting that they were missrepresented simply that the completeness of history and records of massive service expenditure by the previous owner(s) become less important as the cars approach or have passed 150k miles compared to driving well and most important the physical examination of the whole car particularly underneath.
John
Hi John, no it is not the same one. The one advertised on ebay for sale is not the actual one pictured, although it does look the same, albeit with no mudflaps.
The one for breaking is a S2 with S1 alloys, it was stood in that same place when i went. Indeed have you seen the many other Xms surrounding this one? They were all there too, there are many which dont move. A lot more there than you can see in the picture. The front of a car you can see in the bottom left of the picture is a very nice dark blue 2.1 estate, wearing wobby webs. The black on in front of the advertised estate is a very very nice black Exclusive, which is pretty mint other than the front damage, i dont thin that has been there too long though. Again most have not moved for long enough.
When i was there he said he was going to try and thin out his XM stock and concentrate mainly on Cxs. So i expect a lot of other Xm pits and cars will appear on ebay soon from WHM. A real shame really as there are a lot of nice Xms there, some R-plate estates even, and in silver too!
At least it might be a good source of parts for us
I think your right about high-end Xms, often they dont come out to be as good as advertised. Although there must be people willing to spend a high amount on an Xm estate, i think i would, if i knew i was getting one of the best there is.
Chris
The one for breaking is a S2 with S1 alloys, it was stood in that same place when i went. Indeed have you seen the many other Xms surrounding this one? They were all there too, there are many which dont move. A lot more there than you can see in the picture. The front of a car you can see in the bottom left of the picture is a very nice dark blue 2.1 estate, wearing wobby webs. The black on in front of the advertised estate is a very very nice black Exclusive, which is pretty mint other than the front damage, i dont thin that has been there too long though. Again most have not moved for long enough.
When i was there he said he was going to try and thin out his XM stock and concentrate mainly on Cxs. So i expect a lot of other Xm pits and cars will appear on ebay soon from WHM. A real shame really as there are a lot of nice Xms there, some R-plate estates even, and in silver too!
At least it might be a good source of parts for us
I think your right about high-end Xms, often they dont come out to be as good as advertised. Although there must be people willing to spend a high amount on an Xm estate, i think i would, if i knew i was getting one of the best there is.
Chris
| QUOTE |
| At least it might be a good source of parts for us |
yep but at stupid prices, on ebay now, £150 for a scuffed 2nd hand bumper, £450 for a xantia v6 engine "to go into your 306"
all seems a bit steep to me.D
My vote for Reccomending to others is also the 2.1 td...
Yes Yes, I drive V6's on LPG.. but theres no cam belt to worry about, but lots of other things instead
.. Id be a bit concerned when it comes to belt change time on a 2.5 with sooo little space to work in...
I think also the 2 water rads are quite expensive... something the 2.1 only has one of..
IF you get an auto and it drives well, and chenges gear fine then FIRST MOSTLY get the transmission fluid changed!!!
Rgds
Paul
Yes Yes, I drive V6's on LPG.. but theres no cam belt to worry about, but lots of other things instead
.. Id be a bit concerned when it comes to belt change time on a 2.5 with sooo little space to work in...I think also the 2 water rads are quite expensive... something the 2.1 only has one of..
IF you get an auto and it drives well, and chenges gear fine then FIRST MOSTLY get the transmission fluid changed!!!
Rgds
Paul
Actually i didnt take any notice of the prices they were asking, looks like they might have to come down a bit to get a sale. But then if someone really needs a bumper or engine, they might pay it!
How are 2.1 autos on fuel?
How are 2.1 autos on fuel?
I have a friend with a S2 2.1 Auto, M reg.. with Bosch mechanical and a run will see 45 mpg.. Not sure the driving style...
He is a fellow member, so may well make a comment here...
Rgds
Paul
He is a fellow member, so may well make a comment here...
Rgds
Paul
| QUOTE (Citroenmad @ Jan 22 2009, 21:35 PM) |
| But then if someone really needs a bumper or engine, they might pay it! |
Well, count me out even though I DO DESPERATELY want the very exact same coloured
nosecone and front bumper. For £300, I'd expect some extras beyond a courier!
The main bit that's usually attached to these as it came from the factory new would be
a good start!
Greedy blighters aren't they? Not like we're talking about Traction or DS/SM parts even!!!
Andrew
Chris if it was mint then.......................at a very good stretch it would be damned expensive, but scuffed? with no washer jets? and without towing eye covers or indicator units?, come on, thats taking the p**s. I would go and buy an xm in the right colour, have the nose and bumper off it and scrap the car and still be £'s in for the sort of money WHM are after.
If i was gona pay that sort of money i would get a new one from Cit!
Maybe im just tight
D
If i was gona pay that sort of money i would get a new one from Cit!
Maybe im just tight
D
Yes, i just thought there, you could buy an Xm, take the bumper and lights and scrap the rest or break it for parts and be far better off, even leaving some money to have it painted. I forbid scrapping of good Xms though, so no one do that!
45mpg is pretty good actually, i was expecting around 40.
45mpg is pretty good actually, i was expecting around 40.
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