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roddew
Have transferred this post as I think it belongs more appropriately here.

I often wonder why people are so often in the habit of describing "thermostatic heater fan control" as "climate control".
We went to look at an estate in S. London, having specifically asked whether the car had aircon after being described "climate control" and been given an affirmative answer. On arrival there was no aircon and when asked about this the (long time) owner said he thought that's what air conditioning was.
We left dismayed, a 300 mile journey wasted, and we'd even made allowance for the error potential by asking specifically in advance.
In this particular case I would have thought that WHM would have known better.

Do bear in mind that aircon was also fitted without the digital control (we have 2 such cars) making a simpler system with fewer electronics to fail.

Good luck in the continued search, Citroenmad.

Rodders.
Citroenmad
Oh, this is aimed at me is it laugh.gif

Yes i got a little dissapointed by that too. Climate control is always air con. Infact the non aircon VSX cars say electronic control or something?

4 types of heating/cooling systems in one car model is odd. You get the Sx dual zone, VSX auto fan, VSX option with air con and auto fan (has a slider for eco-to-air con where the fan slider is on the SX) and lastly the digi type.

I much prefer the SX dual zone heating over the standard VSX non air con type. Thats very nice as im for ever altering the temperature for me and it means my passenger can do the same. I always have the fan to the second speed on the slider.

The auto fan and temp with air con is how it shoud be. However stating "electronic climate control" to me implies its the digital air con type.

WHM knew it did not have air con, i just asume thats how they explain the standard VSX spec. I should have asked before i went.

Thats not the main reason we didnt go ahead with it. I could live without air con if the car was a good one, with very little needing doing ...
xmexclusive
Hi All

If you look in the EPA book you will see that Citroen designed all models of the XM to provide a "micro-climate" for each individual passenger in the car using automatic sensors to achieve the continuing climate control in accord with the preference settings. The ideal example of this is the SX with its separate front passenger controls. It is therefore reasonable to claim as many sellers do that an XM has climate control. While all XM's have climate control not all cars do and the sales description is in competition with all other cars for sale, not just XM's. The book explains that airconditioning is a cooling addition to this climate control system. With XM's both the climate control and the airconditioning may be manually or electronically controlled (knobs/sliders or push buttons/lights/number displays. This is a separate question you need to ask the seller and do not expect him to know the answer. I often have to study the photos very carefully to make up my own mind as to what is fitted.

John
citroenxm
Rodders, and anyone else..

My way around the disapointment, is to ask for a GOOD picture of the engine bay!!

If Air con is fitted you WILL see the dryer in the engine bay... XM's on the battery tray house, next to the fuel filter/coil, and on Xantias, over to the LEFT (looking at the engine) just by the rad, or on later HDi's up by the coolant expansion tank...

If its not in those places, its not fitted... Simple!!

Good luck with your hunting... as for an engine pic on the next wink.gif cool.gif

Rgds
Paul
Peter.N.
I to prefer the 'dual zone' heating in the SX, it also gives you complete control over the temperature unlike the VSX which goes on to full heat at anything over 26C. The SX system is also mechanical, making it potentialy more reliable. If its not to big a job I might consider retro fitting an SX system in my VSX estate.

Peter.N.
Citroenmad
I know i should have asked first to see if it did have air con. Lesson learnt!

My Sx has an air con compressor, no idea why, it certainly doesnt have anything else air con related.

I had thought about removing it and getting the pully and the right belt just so it looks right wacko.gif

Someone once explained that during production if they ran out of a certain part they would have to put a similar part on the car so to no stop the production line. Sounds a little far fetched to put a air con compressor and the air con belt on a car with no air con. Its not the first time ive heard of that though wacko.gif
Andmcit
Could be of course be the simple explanation that the engine's out of another car... dry.gif

Andrew
xmexclusive
Hi Citroenmad

If you read the EPA book you will realise that the XM production line was heavily automated with robotic control and assembly. This really limits the options that can be changed without stopping/reprogramming the production lines. The myths about using odds and sods to keep the production going are in my opinion old wives tales and should be taken with pinch of salt. That said your engine with a redundant aircon compressor is still just possible as the assembly process was to mount the engine complete and tested on the front subframe then drop the chassis on the engine then couple up the connections. In the last year of Mk1 production with the Mk2 facelift announced Citroen had to do something to shift the last of the Mk1's from the showroom. They chose to upgrade the bottom of the range cars with leather, alloy wheels, aircon and Prestige badges. These changes would have been options within the production line robotic control anyway.

John
Citroenmad
QUOTE (Andmcit @ Nov 11 2008, 00:51 AM)
Could be of course be the simple explanation that the engine's out of another car... dry.gif

Andrew

Yes i think its possible actually, probably with a 1.8 Xantia unit dry.gif

Not sure why it should have needed an engine, but that must have been at some point in its first 6 years and 64K miles of its life. It has full history and there is no mention of an engine swap.

The engine is as smooth as silk, never smokes or uses any oil or water.

So if it has had an engine swap its never been a problem for the car.

Its a great engine no matter how it got there, over the last 6 years its never once missed a beat, starts perfectly even if its been stood a month or so and takes every long journey in its stride.
citroenxm
The 2.oi 16v Twin Cam engines had a habit in the Xantia of breaking belts just on or around the reccomended belt change milage... Not sure if the XM's have suffered the same, but my guess would be yes as its likely the same unit

My guess is then if you car is around the 65k, it has possibly had a new engine due to the possibility of a belt break, which would take all 16 valves, and 16 hydraulic lifters... its cheaper to buy a replacement engine...

That would be my theory anyway...

Paul
Andmcit
What makes you think the engine is a 1.8 unit Chris!? I thought you were kidding the
other day when you mentioned the lethargic acceleration and had put it down to a 1.8...

Surely the engine management would need to be a 1.8 one too!? What's the model/code
on the ECU? Have you got any additional clues like an engine number or piccies? It's
supposed to be a 2.0i 16v right?

Does it look like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1996-citroen-xm-sx-2...emZ270287479968

Andrew
Craigdp
whm = wolsey house motors?

I remember going to buy a black XM from them, called to arrange asked if there was any dents told no only one on the rear normal place 60,000miles on the clock £2000 thought great. off we go to buy it from south wales get there what a waste of time car didnt have a dent free pannel, the cars interior had looked like it had seen 60,000miles 120,000miles ago. when I said this is a sh** car I get told well it isnt expensive. I wouldnt deal with these people save your time they are fools, no surprise if they dont know the diff between aircon and CC think they are specialists in being know nowts.

Craig
Citroenmad
QUOTE (Andmcit @ Nov 11 2008, 21:40 PM)
What makes you think the engine is a 1.8 unit Chris!? I thought you were kidding the
other day when you mentioned the lethargic acceleration and had put it down to a 1.8...

Surely the engine management would need to be a 1.8 one too!? What's the model/code
on the ECU? Have you got any additional clues like an engine number or piccies? It's
supposed to be a 2.0i 16v right?

Does it look like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1996-citroen-xm-sx-2...emZ270287479968

Andrew

Hi Andrew, i dont know it is for certain but it would make sense.

It does look the like engine in the picture, we also compared it to the 2.0 VSX we had and it did look the same, although there was a noticable loss in performance in the SX compared to the VSX.

About a year after we bought it we had to order something for the einge. I can't remember what exactly, may have been something to do with the air intake or something. Anyway the Citroen dealer kept ordering the part for a 2.0, it never fitted. So by chance he ordered the part for a 1.8 Xantia and it did fit!

Now that may just be a mix up with Citroen parts, ive seen it happen before, but its performance says otherwise. Although it may just be a slow car, as i believe you do get variations in performance even in the same model car.

If it is the 1.8 16v Xantia unit, then i would be down by about 30BHP to 105.

Its not painfully slow however, put your foot down and it will get to 70 in second very easily, it seems very free revving (not that i rev it hard often!). A rough 0-60 time was about 13 seconds, book figure for it should be 12.

It easlily keeps up with traffic and on the motorway you would not notice, its actually quite hard to stick to the limits wink.gif

Id like to compare it with a drive of another 2.0 auto, just to see the difference. It doesnt really detract from the cars appeal to us, we bought it like that so know nothing different. Plus it looks exactly how a 2.0 engine should - I think the 1,8 uses the same block anyway?
ThwartedEfforts
QUOTE (Citroenmad @ Nov 12 2008, 09:11 AM)
Id like to compare it with a drive of another 2.0 auto, just to see the difference. It doesnt really detract from the cars appeal to us, we bought it like that so know nothing different. Plus it looks exactly how a 2.0 engine should - I think the 1,8 uses the same block anyway?

You can have a drag race with me smile.gif
Citroenmad
QUOTE (ThwartedEfforts @ Nov 12 2008, 09:21 AM)
QUOTE (Citroenmad @ Nov 12 2008, 09:11 AM)
Id like to compare it with a drive of another 2.0 auto, just to see the difference. It doesnt really detract from the cars appeal to us, we bought it like that so know nothing different. Plus it looks exactly how a 2.0 engine should - I think the 1,8 uses the same block anyway?

You can have a drag race with me smile.gif

laugh.gif Tempting!
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