Hi all

Just bought this on ebay and thought it's far too good news not to share it with you:


strut top and bonnet protector







I've posted some more details in the "Hydraulic" section.

cheers
George

so why oh why has it taken SOOOOOO long, and NO ONE from the UK to make one sooner!! Is there no one clever enough here in UK.

Good luck to them.. it could be a great sucess for them..

Rgds
Paul

Don't know Paul...Entrepreneurship is a very complex phenomenon...Imagine that in Planete-Citroen (France) there's a thread with about 13 pages dedicated to the issue. Yet nobody overthere has presented anything either. Mind you, I also have a couple of similar ideas, but "don't find the time" to deal with it....

cheers
G

Total load of crap!

That's all I need; a device for holding a failed strut top (if it IS actually substantial enough to
do so which I personally doubt), allowing the car to remain usable perhaps in ignorance with
its nice straight bonnet!?

Am I missing something?

Isn't one of these on a strut top a lame admission that the existing strut is about to go pop
and/or isn't checked regularly? Sure, protect the bonnet being bent if you must but I wouldn't
see as the best invention yet for Xm's since the discovery of the wheel...

Call me a cynic, I don't care, and I certainly don't care for these failed strut arrestors!

Andrew

aww come on Andrew, there are many of us who'd consider doing this, as even if you are checking regularly, there's no telling when one might fail on you while out on holiday, etc.

Even if it gives you a little control before it fails itself, it might just make the difference should the worst happen. If it actually does hold up, then it saves you a lot of hassle and extra expense for relatively low outlay, and looks reasonably elegant compared to other efforts seen so far. Would make recovery onto a trailer etc somewhat easier too.

I've not had one fail completely yet, but did have the central sphere carrier part creep up into the engine bay by a good 5-10mm, thankfully spotted before it was too late. At that time I had no idea about this failure mode so wasn't checking for it.

regards
Dave

I tend to agree with Andrew.

I looks fairly flimsy to me.
I too played around with an idea for a secondary bracket.
Problem is this might save your bonnet at parking speed in a car park, but what would happen if you hit a pothole at 70mph?

Clearly when the strut punches through there is no guarantee as to the angle it will be at and you would lose steering control quite violently.

Many years ago I had a Mk 1 Cortina with a worn nut holding the Macpherson strut piston inside the cylinder. Sharp changes of direction were hazardous to put it mildly and the nut was quickly replaced.

DJ

My two penneth

Played with a similar idea for ages, made a couple of cardboard mock ups

got all excited

its was along similar lines but witha cylinder (beercan size) cut lenghtways then with tangs bolting it together, bottom flange bolted to existing mounting bolts, cloed in lid with just the big nut showing through

Went to MOT man, he scratched his head, called "his" people

They say, no no no no no no no



reasons were that they wouldnt accept any modifications that would affect the bump stop principle of the struts or affect the steering.


so idea was shelved

Hi All

Afraid that despite my concern about strut head failure I too do not think that this is a really worthwhile solution. The device looks good at first appearance but if you start to analyse the impact forces that it will have to withstand it is quickly evident that the designer has chosen the options where the material used provides the least resistance to this impact. To then use a static load test to prove the effectiveness of the device to restrain an impact load just confirms to me that this is not a perfected engineering solution.

Do not like being negative because somebody has at least done something to try to solve a very real problem.

Regards

John

Hi all!

As I see there are 2 arguments here:

1. "Why do we need such a thing?"

2. "This specific item is not up to the job!"

Well, here's my point of view....

1. a. There's no discussion that the best practice would be to give a thorough look at the underside of the struts tops once a year. However bare in mind you are saying this to someone who has postponed repairing a driver's electric window and a "steamy" heater matrix for 1 year (yes, me!). And still have to look (before "summer" ends!) at: a not-working electric mirror (since last winter), flushing the cooling system (not done it 4 years now), a broken MAP sensor hose (a year), putting on the mudflaps I bought in May, try to find new replacements for the 4 out of 6 fuel pipes which are cracked on my inlet manifold -the other 2 I replaced with universal piping-, switch on and play with the MP3 player my girlfriend bought for my birthday 1 month ago (have only opened the box so far!). And of course a list of things to repair at home that could probably fill up an Egyptian papyrus (u know, those that unroll, and unroll, and unroll...). Sad, but this is me, now. And I only have 1 car! Andrew, how do u do it???

b. Then, even if u do check the stuff from below *in situ* at regular intervals (joke of the year: George removes the strut top from car and cleans it and polishes it etc.), you can never exclude the chance that you just missed the faulty bit because e.g. the rubber was shredded internally, or you just didn't see well, or,

c. That the fault has developed between your intervals.....

d. As I said, I have always wanted to do something about this, had even considered using chains etc, but never got to do it (the 1st paragraph above feeds here ), also because I guess I was never really happy with the best solution I could bring with my means (don't have a welder etc). But I always felt the possibility of just *slowing down* the development of things upon an eventual failure of the top, is simply invaluable. That's the main reason I've always wanted such an item.

e. Compared to the above, my bonnet's shape is really a secondary issue but: if the failure happens, especially at some low speed e.g. while parking (the most common case as documented on Planete-Citroen!!), this item is likely to save me the cost and hassle of getting a new bonnet, which then will need to be painted in my car's color because it'll be my lucky day if I manage to find one of the same color! Not a negligible amount of money...I keep various spares for my car but they tend to be much much smaller than...bonnet-size!

f. Having some chances to be able to drive slowly back home where the replacement strut top awaits, doesn't sound like a bad thing to me!

g. Or loading the car easily to a truck if I'm far from home (which I admit I had not thought of).

h. Least important: Owning an XM automatically shows you are some kind of free spirit and defintitely not a conformist -I sadly experience bullying all too often for owning this car-. But even *I* have some limits. I want my car to look beautiful and tidy. I wouldn't like, after having explained aaaall the wonders of the hydropneumatic suspension, open the bonnet and having to explain to my almost-converted friend "oh these chains there I have put because the struts might pop up through the bonnet" (friend runs away and orders the latest Passat). At least this item looks very presentable -if u agree-! "Oh these are special aftermarket titanium-vanadium-magnesium suspension dome reinforcers, from HKS of Japan!!"



2. Indeed it might not be the optimal design to resist the biggest possible impacts, however who can deny that, in the worst scenario for the said quality of this item, it will provide, before it breaks, *at least* a somewhat controlled poping-up of the strut in the case of sudden failure. I think the static load test they performed is sufficient to warrant such a behavior. This to me is just invaluable -compared to totally and violently loosing steering at 70mph-. A case of sleeping calmly at night as compared to driving the car and thinking "oh is it today the day that the strut top will fail". ...

The shape of it looks just spot on to me for "catching" the strut. In any photo of failed tops I've seen, the strut moves right up, simply. And as far as I can see, the ring already surrounds the strut.

Indeed it would be nice if the designers could perform dynamic impact tests also -should not be difficult: just remove the strut top from an XM, lift it up and...leave it crash on the protector!-.

As for the MOT issue, I understand that the item can be placed/removed in 5 minutes literally -I'll know for sure when I install mine-.


So go on, try convincing me this thing, as is, was not worthing my £47!!! I mean, if this had been tested and TUV certified at impact loads and came with a warranty that it will stand any impact up to 120mph even if u run on flat spheres, then I'd be probably be willing to pay £200 for it...but my XM is not *so* neglected as to need such a reassurance!

I mean, you can spend £47 on (the begining of) a night out...

cheers
George

Very thoughtful and detailed message there for many, but surely it will need nothing like any of the the suggestions made as long as the front suspension spheres are replaced regularly (on good strut-tops)

Rather than invest in some novelty home made contraption of dubious quality or function a regular inspection of components by professionals would be the way to go. My humble opinion.

Jan-hendrik, Techmanagain, there is no dissagreement in theory, problem is you refer to IDEALISED situations...which are far from REAL life...that's all.

[Repeat, from my previous msg:

What if the top shredded/failed *between* the "regular inspections from professionals"...? (unless u mean checking the tops every month!)

What if the "professionals" didn't spot the failure...?

Who are the "professionals" in the UK? Citroen???? Some don't even know what an XM is!!!

What if they told me "Sir, the tops are OK, £44.56 please" without even actually having looked at them?

Do I trust my indy to look at my tops, when each time they work on the car they forget to put back about 2 out of 10 nuts they've removed??

What if my car is now on good spheres but I have no idea of its use between 1994-2004?]

Have you read recently about this top German water-polo athlete who was found, just days before his team travel to the Olympics, to have a heart condition that could kill him if he played a few matches more...so he suddenly was obliged to pull the curtain over his career...I bet he was receiving the best possible professional attention all these years, in regular intervals etc....still, he just had a VERY lucky escape...they found it "just in time" before his..."strut top" failed!

BTW is it not a bit of a (sad) irony that, as we write this thread, in another thread, just 2 steps away, the story of Andmcit-Andrew and his quest for a black bonnet is developing, due to a "dodgy" strut top failing on his (well taken care of?) Xantia WHILE PARKED .

cheers
G

Techmanagain this is nothing to do with spheres and everything to do with strut tops.

George says "The shape of it looks just spot on to me for "catching" the strut. In any photo of failed tops I've seen, the strut moves right up, simply. And as far as I can see, the ring already surrounds the strut."

Photo's are taken (in my experience) when the vehicle is STATIONARY and therefore do not illustrate the strut positions during failure.

If nothing else makes sense, think about your reference to "catching" the strut.

This may save your bonnet, although I have a question mark over it's strength and size. However if your main concern is that the executors of your estate have a blood soaked bonnet to sell post the crash..............

DJ

Hi DJ

Without going to a study of the kinetics of the XM's strut when the top's rubber has failed:

The cylinder is well constricted in its movement, even when the rubber has failed. Its range of movement will be within the top's remaining, as on the right of the photo:



Photos of the cars with failed tops show that the strut has basically thrusted upwards, you can say by the shape of the ex-bonnets. Unless my memory fails me. Don't make me go and find all the photos of failed tops on XMs and Xantias uploaded on the internet !!!

Taking into account that the device already surrounds the strut before it breaks, looks like the effectiveness of it depends mostly on its robustness. But my point since the beginning is that the best I'm hoping for, is a slowing-down of the loss of control in the event of a sudden failure. Now, if the thing manages to hold the castle, even better.

Yes it looks like it will save my bonnet in case the top's rubber ruptures at low speed or when car parked (the most frequent cases, as far as I've read). I'd think the static load test done performed by the constructors supports such a statement. Yes, I'd be immensely p****d off having to look for a bonnet in black, while being obliged to driving around with the old bonnet, as this is my only car.

cheers
G

As I understand it, failure mode has the complete dome head moving upwards, not just the ram portion. The ring on this device will therefore retain the strut head. It has been made as a ring to allow head articulation during normal steering and suspension movements.

The rods will be loaded in tension in the event of failure so testing them in tension is correct.

The ring at the top is close to the strut head so in the event of failure impulse and impact loads will be little more than static loads.

Although I agree that regular examinations are the way to go, there are some failure modes (for example the Australian failure of the rubber insert) that are not easily detectable unless you have access to an ultrasonic or X-ray device, and they require expert analysis. As for relying on "the professionals" for anything other than changing my tyres, no thanks.

After all the discussions about strut failure and complaints that someone should do something, it seems to me that this is a very worthy effort. After all, no-one is going to redesign the strut head, are they?

Derek