I've just taken the fuel pump out of my 2.0 turbo and was shocked to find unprotected electrical connections (spade and soldered) inside the fuel tank.
Is this normal?.........I mean......it only takes one spark............
Surely they could have been covered with heat shrink or something, or better still, make all electrical connections outside the tank.
The haynes manual says the pump/sender assembly has to be replaced as a complete unit, yet I can buy the pump separately. Is it safe to fit a new pump considering new soldered connections will have to be made and the spade connections will have to be reconnected.
I'm sure my old Vauxhalls weren't like this.......are other cars?
Full Version French Car Bombs?
Hi Minijet,
There is no problem with these connections whatsoever, although the first time i saw them, like you, i was a little concerned, but ive never heard of one going bang.
The pump is very easy to swap with a little soldering as you say and there is no reason to swap the whole unit. You haven't been going by what Haynes says have you?????? its like believing what they print in the daily mirror
.
Good luck
D
There is no problem with these connections whatsoever, although the first time i saw them, like you, i was a little concerned, but ive never heard of one going bang.
The pump is very easy to swap with a little soldering as you say and there is no reason to swap the whole unit. You haven't been going by what Haynes says have you?????? its like believing what they print in the daily mirror
.Good luck
D
| QUOTE (dean @ Jul 30 2008, 17:03 PM) |
You haven't been going by what Haynes says have you?????? its like believing what they print in the daily mirror . |
Dean
If I was Haynes I'd sue you for that
I know they're crap........but to compare them to the mirror............I think that's a bit OTT...........
Actually I've already dismantled it, it comes apart quite easily.
I think the reason they say replace the whole assembly is that if the connections were a bit loose maybe there could be a spark (the spade connectors were very tight), and it suits Citroen because they can charge more for it that way.
I've taken the top off the pump motor and found that one of the carbon brushes has disintegrated, so now I know the cause of the problem. Oh well, it only took me a few weeks to solve the mystery............
Paul.
in my experience these things are damned useless!! That's the fuel pump as well
as a Haynes manual!!
Nice to know what's at the root of your problem Paul and the demise of a 2.0i Turbo
has been averted. Did the car become lazier and more awkward to get started first
thing in the day?
All the best,
Andrew
as a Haynes manual!!
Nice to know what's at the root of your problem Paul and the demise of a 2.0i Turbo
has been averted. Did the car become lazier and more awkward to get started first
thing in the day?
All the best,
Andrew
| QUOTE (Andmcit @ Jul 30 2008, 20:01 PM) |
Did the car become lazier and more awkward to get started first thing in the day? |
Hi Andrew,
No problem at all starting first thing, only when the engine had warmed up.
I still can't figure out why it would work ok until the engine was turned off, then refuse to restart.
I've had brushes wear out on power tools, but they just give up suddenly without warning, not intermittently like this.
Of course, it's not impossible that there could be more than one fault.
Paul.
Do fuel pump motors have brushes?
This one does...........
Wow! Thanks Paul, I am surprised.
Derek
Derek
How's progress now then!?
A few years back now, I had a total failure of the fuel pump on a Xantia 2.0i which uses
the very same engine and near identical running gear as the Xm 2.0i. It started to get
awkward to from a cold start and it did seem to miss occasionally when it was driven but
it ran reliably enough to not directly prevent the car being used until it finally resolutely
refused to start.
After initially diving in changing virtually everything that could be removed in the engine bay
bar the actual engine as I had an identical car parked next to it to play swapsies with; it took
an embarrassing while to realise it'd be a good idea to check the fuel pump.
Instant life and reliable use ever since - the car had managed just under 100k miles.
Damned auto electrics - it's all witchcraft!
Andrew
A few years back now, I had a total failure of the fuel pump on a Xantia 2.0i which uses
the very same engine and near identical running gear as the Xm 2.0i. It started to get
awkward to from a cold start and it did seem to miss occasionally when it was driven but
it ran reliably enough to not directly prevent the car being used until it finally resolutely
refused to start.
After initially diving in changing virtually everything that could be removed in the engine bay
bar the actual engine as I had an identical car parked next to it to play swapsies with; it took
an embarrassing while to realise it'd be a good idea to check the fuel pump.
Instant life and reliable use ever since - the car had managed just under 100k miles.
Damned auto electrics - it's all witchcraft!
Andrew
I'm just waiting for the replacement pump Andrew.
I'm hoping it's only the pump that's faulty, this is probably the last chance for this car, time has almost run out now.
I'm still really puzzled as to how worn brushes could cause the symptoms that the car had........I wouldn't have thought the fuel pump would get so hot that any of the components would distort.........?
With regard to my worries about the wires and connectors in the fuel tank, I think the idea is that they're submerged in the petrol, and of course the liquid can't ignite.
But that's only when the tank is full........when the level drops, the wires are exposed. I suppose it's still ok provided the fuel air mixture doesn't reach the right ratio for it to combust................I have to admit, I'm still a bit uneasy about it..........
I wondered if a Xantia pump would fit......or at least I might be able to get the brushes out of it, but they only had a couple of Xantia diesels.
While I was there I checked on the scrap value........£110 per ton at the moment.
In a little over six months it's gone from £50 to £180 the back down to £110............
paul.
I'm hoping it's only the pump that's faulty, this is probably the last chance for this car, time has almost run out now.
I'm still really puzzled as to how worn brushes could cause the symptoms that the car had........I wouldn't have thought the fuel pump would get so hot that any of the components would distort.........?
With regard to my worries about the wires and connectors in the fuel tank, I think the idea is that they're submerged in the petrol, and of course the liquid can't ignite.
But that's only when the tank is full........when the level drops, the wires are exposed. I suppose it's still ok provided the fuel air mixture doesn't reach the right ratio for it to combust................I have to admit, I'm still a bit uneasy about it..........
I wondered if a Xantia pump would fit......or at least I might be able to get the brushes out of it, but they only had a couple of Xantia diesels.
While I was there I checked on the scrap value........£110 per ton at the moment.
In a little over six months it's gone from £50 to £180 the back down to £110............
paul.
Minijet..
Theres no reason why a xantia one wont fit from a 16v car... They also have the "Pump in Tank" arrangement.. if you can get one of those before mine gets to you then thats good.
Rgds
Paul
Theres no reason why a xantia one wont fit from a 16v car... They also have the "Pump in Tank" arrangement.. if you can get one of those before mine gets to you then thats good.
Rgds
Paul
I'm not totally certain about all 2.0i models of Xantia. The one's off the 8v are close enough but have
4 wire connections on the multi plug rather than the 5 on the Xm one but otherwise physically
appear identical in the plug connection and throat diameter etc.
Andrew
4 wire connections on the multi plug rather than the 5 on the Xm one but otherwise physically
appear identical in the plug connection and throat diameter etc.
Andrew
The reason why it probably started from cold is that resistance will rise with heat-if the pump's been running then it follows that it will get warm and hence increase resistance of an already higher (than normal due to wearing of the brushes) resistance.
Also with my experience of power tools brushes they can often break down slowly causing 'popping' and intermittent running.
Good luck with the replacement!
Alan.
Also with my experience of power tools brushes they can often break down slowly causing 'popping' and intermittent running.
Good luck with the replacement!
Alan.
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