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Andmcit
We all know about the dreaded Autobox fragility, or longevity depending on who you talk to.

I've just chanced upon these discussions on the web for ZF boxes in Beemers which I'm quite
happy to accept could to a TOTALLY different design but the conclusions are quite interesting
and could be very informative/helpful in determining what actually kills the box in an Xm:

http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWT...boxZF4HP22.html
http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWT...boxZF-HP22.html

seems it's down to how you hold the thing in Park with the engine running!? blink.gif

With little pockets of info all over the forum here, whilst I realise using the search facility to
go through everything will get results, wouldn't it be worth having it's own particular category
on the list like Diesel/Petrol/Hydraulic/Electrical etc. After all, this one is a 'biggy' for Xm's
which probably see's more scrapped than any other failure! What do you reckon on it's own
pigeonhole?

Yes, you've guessed it, I'm reading into issues of failure for one of my auto's - don't know
why I still bother with them really.

SOMETIMES IT WON'T GET REVERSE, WHILST FORWARD IS FINE. huh.gif ohmy.gif blink.gif

Forward is always fine. Any ideas?

Andrew
citroenxm
I never stop at lights etc and hold her in gear in the brake...

I ALWAYS slip into N, not park...

My theory, if you are at lights in gear foot on brake, with the clutches dooing their stuff, it can prehaps cause premature wear...

Looks like I could be wrong! VERY IMPORTANT stuff Andrew, well found, so what do I do then instead at lights, simply leave it in gear? Or does it boil down to simply REVVING the car when in neutral, I do it ocasionally to help get the car up quickly in the mornings.. I guess that will have to stop..

Rgds


C
beachcomber
ANYONE WHO HAS SEEN MY POSTINGS ELSEWHERE WILL KNOW THAT ALL MY AUTO TRANS CARS HAVE DONE STARSHIP MILEAGES WITHOUT PROBLEM.

I'VE BEEN DRIVING AUTOS ALL MY DRIVING LIFE [ SINCE 1961 ] AND HAVE NEVER DEVIATED IN MY DRIVING STYLE.

IE. LEAVE THE TRANS IN GEAR AT TRAFFIC LIGHT STOPS [ OTHERWISE WHAT'S THE POINT OF "AUTO" IF YOU ARE "MANUALLING" IT ALL THE TIME? ]. I DON'T RUN THE ENGINE WHILE THE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL - AGAIN, WHAT'S THE POINT?
AND I ALWAYS TURN THE ENGINE OFF IF IT'S IN PARK. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS OF COURSE, WHEN CHECKING FLUIDS ETC., BUT THESE ARE ONLY MOMENTARY.
OH YES AND I USE BOTH FEET WHEN DRIVING - TWO PEDALS - TWO FEET, SEEMS LOGICAL TO ME.

SO IT WOULD SEEM THAT UNKNOWINGLY I'VE BEEN DOING THE RIGHT THING [ ACCORDING TO OUR BEEMER MAN ] IN KEEPING MY AUTOS LONG LIVED.

I'VE FOUND THAT AUTOS ARE IN GENERAL MUCH MORE ROBUST THAN YOU MIGHT GIVE CREDIT FOR.

I THINK I ALREADY MENTIONED MY 1000 + BHP RACE CAR THAT DROVE THROUGH A HUMBLE TWO SPEED AUTO.
BEACHCOMBER
wirdy
Ah, Beachcomber - it's been a while since you were around here biggrin.gif

I don't think you meant to , but in general capitals are SHOUTING wink.gif
DerekW
Thank you Andrew, lots of interesting comments there. Most seemed to stem from North America and with that market I would have thought it essential for ZF to fix this particular design glitch quickly, particularly with BMW leaning on them. Indeed ZF seemed to have introduced a modified front clutch pack on the subject gearbox back in 1992.

I don't know whether the early 4HP18s had the same internal design as those gearboxes - I suspect it was similar, but I would think that if it was a general fault across the whole range ZF would have modified all gearboxes. So any post '92 box should be OK.

I was taught never to keep my foot on the clutch pedal when at a standstill. I see selecting neutral with an auto as an extension of that principle.

Derek
dean
Hi all

In the rover 800 i had after a while in gear and stationary the interior light would flash as a warning to take it out of gear, so i have always taken mine out of gear at the lights.

Dean
beachcomber
Sorry to wake you up with my shouting Wirdy !!!!!!!!!!

Actually it was more of being lazy. I had left the caps lock on and was a fair way through the piece before I looked at the screen and realised [ yes - I do NOT touch type ] THAT I WAS IN FACT SHOUTING.

Foot on clutch pedal at lights / stop - is that INSTEAD of putting the handbrake on and putting the car in neutral as required in the highway code / driving test? Or maybe that's changed as well - difficult to keep up with what's the PC statement of the month.

I was told that if the car was in gear and the clutch pedal depressed whilst stationary and someone ran into the back of you there was a good chance that your foot would slip off the clutch pedal and launch you off down the road.

I must admit that with auto I just brake to a stop and keep my foot on the brake pedal, and simply accelerate away when the time comes.

I think it's fairly safe to say that most of us would fail a current driver test if pushed!
beachcomber
wirdy
QUOTE (beachcomber @ Apr 1 2008, 21:46 PM)
Sorry to wake you up with my shouting Wirdy !!!!!!!!!!


Funnily enough, that's what I expected tongue.gif

nice to have you back laugh.gif

I must admit I leave mine in drive at traffic lights sad.gif
steelcityuk
Interestingly enough Car Mechanics have a auto BMW as a project car at the moment and they make comment that since a certain date the gearbox is a 'sealed for life' (death?) componet but since this has happened quite a number have started to fail at around the 150K mark.

Coincidence? I think not!

Steve.
Ken newbold
This goes to confirm what I thought. A guy I know only has an autobox licence, having riden with him once I noticed that every time the car stopped he put it in neutral. To my knowledge he's had more box failures than anyone.

I assumed that everytime you shift it in and out of drive/forward/reverse/park with the engine running you must be chipping a bit of metal off the gears somewhere which eventually block and kill the system.

I once took an autobox apart to see what was inside, some of the tiny holes the oil must pass through are about half the size of a pinhead ohmy.gif so these would block very easily.
wirdy
If all else fails we could get our Meccano out.......Like this guy did
dean
Don't look like it would handle 200bhp for long though, biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Dean
beachcomber
My pal is involved with replica sports cars [ Cobras and C Type Jags ] and from time to time he ropes me in to assist with design development [ chassis, suspension, steering, etc.] - occassionally engines.

We're currently developing a version of a one make series race Cobra that he used to supply in the '90's for Track Day / fast road use.

This one uses 3 and 5 series BMW donor parts.

ALL engines are V8 of one capacity or another [ where the hell is this leading to I hear you ask???? ] WELL, of ALL of the donors we've collected to date [ 6 ] ALL have been Auto except one which was Spanish. Suits our purposes though as we only supply with Spanish boxes for Race use. He's developed a rather trick bellhousing that allows the fitting of the 6 speed Getrag box instead.

ALL the donor cars had trans failures and were bought for around £200 - £300. I'm not sure what that proves - if anything, except maybe don't by an auto Beemer.

Can't be persuaded to have a manual through choice - auto driving is too relaxed.

Beachcomber
citroenxm
It obviously shows that ZF cant make a very good box if all their boxes are failing on a number of different cars..

What ever happend to Borg Warner! Those never ever seemed to have failed in the past from what I've heard...



C
Assich
Have I missed something here. The forum posts at the start of this post refer to pre 92 boxes and that ZF fixed the problem. Well before the 22 box was fitted to an XM.
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