Evening folks (or is it morning, I don't know )

Annnnnyway, I was thinking about waxoyling or otherwise undersealing both XMs when I get the S1 through the MOT next week.

I have what will seem like a stupid question to most of you, but I've never done this before so its unclear -
When applying the waxoyl, are there any particular places underneath that should be avoided, or is it just a case of cover anything and everything?
I know the likes of the exhaust shouldn't be coated, but what about hydraulic pipes etc?

Thoughts?

Cover everything, even getting in behind the hyd pipe covers that run down the nearside as best you can. A bit of overspray on the exhaust does no harm.
Obviously be careful not to get any on your brake disks.

Yes hydraulic pipes especially!

You have to keep it hot/warm or it gets too thick to spray. It is also smelly and messy but worth it to preserve your pride and joy. Wear gloves or you will get blisters unless you use some sort of power spray.

Hi Ciaran

If you can just wait a minute while I put my awkward hat on ! I used to be a Waxoyl believer, but I've left the fold. Strikes me that mostly the original external XM underseal isn't bad stuff, providing it's undamaged. One of the things I became aware of with waxoyl is that certainly with some underseals, it actually softens them and can lead to peeling off, without getting anywhere near the metal itself at all. If it's not directly on the metal, you may as well not bother. Personally, I also dispute their claim about its 'creepability' and propensity to remain pliable --- no it doesn't !! Put a good thick layer on, check it after a couple of years or so and it will have shrunk and cracked like a dried out clay field. It's nowhere near runny enough to get to all the hidden areas and I've found that even using proper compressed air application gear.
My favourite proofer by a mile these days is a Morris Oils product called Ankor Wax. Available in different thicknesses, it is absolutely ideal for box section, enclosed spaces and sill work in its thin form, while the thicker version works ideally on semi - exposed areas, such as the underbody pipe runs, subframes, etc. The thin version is very liquid ( I always have a bowl or two to catch the run out from sills and doors) and finds every crevice, while the thicker version is still runny enough to fire up along pipe runs and find its way where you can't quite see.

In fully exposed areas (wheelarches, etc.) all I do now is keep an eye out for any factory underseal damage (which seems rare on the XM), clean the spot and use some good old fashioned bitumen. So -- there you have it --- radical or what -- a vote against Waxoyl !!!!!

PS, whatever you use, it's a dirty, s****y, horrible job. Enjoy !

Mike.

That's a new one on me Mike. Is the runny one an aerosol?

Hi Ciaran,

You'll have fun doing this! I waxoyled my Cx during the holdays, lovely job... Make sure you wear a hat as well if you value your hair.

Try and do it on a calm day if you are spraying it on.

I'm with Mike. Waxoil is very good for certain things, such as making sure nuts and bolts come undone next time but on flat surfaces exposed to weather or even hollow sections - not so good. As Mike says, it doesn't creep, engine oil is much better inside hollow parts. Waxoil will tend to set before soaking into the seams - which is where the rust usually starts. In warm weather, plus warm waxoil, it will creep reasonably well but in the present temperature range it will set before creeping into the most vulnerable spots. You could give it a good soaking with oil then apply waxoil but when the oil has dried up the waxoil may prevent further penetration. It will help protect pipes and cables though, and is good for sealing roof leaks.

Peter.N.

I don't use Waxoyl either tbh, not because it isn't good stuff, but because it costs.

There are various products under my cars - chassis rails have stuff called 'Rust Wax' that is good at resisting salt spray (from CPC), and mostly the rest of the underneath is coated with a mixture of penetrating oil mixed with cheap engine oil.

I also use a derivitive of waxoxl that's applied to aircraft (PX-32) - it's good stuff but needs thinning with some white spirit before it's useable at this time of year, that's why I do mine once a year in the summer.

Hi

They do a Waxoyl aerosol which is quite runny. I've used it on my steel bicyle frames and it goes into all the tubes fine.

Cheers

Tony

The chap who used to weld my Morris Minor used to swear by a 50:50 mix of waxoyl and new engine oil heated to about blood heat. Very messy but it runs very well along chassis rails and into door bottoms.

I keep an aerosol of Waxoyl handy any time I'm under the car and just blast any dry looking fasteners or suspect underseal. Finnigans used to do a Waxoyl brand black bitumen product which you brushed on and stayed nice and soft, again quite messy but it worked on my Minor.

John

I always use Waxoyl but only because it's relatively cheap and easy to find. Bilt Hamber products are supposed to be very good if you can afford them.

http://www.bilthamber.com/

When I Waxoyl I stand the pressure tin in a bucket of very hot water with a dribble of washing up liquid in it. I tie the tin down and shove all the hose and lance in too. Whilst this is heating up I put the car on the ramps or jack it up if doing a wheel arch (a plastic carrier bag will cover and tie around the hub to protect the brake discs). Under the car I spread either old curtains or a old plastic shower curtain. I wear a hat, latex gloves and safety specs and as already suggested wait for a calm day. Inside the doors I use new engine old so that it really gets into the seams. One final tip if using a Waxoyl pressure sprayer be sure to test the safety valve a couple of times when pumping it up, sometimes they stick and the hose comes off the lance....

If you saw the pictures of the S reg I had you'll know the underseal had long gone.

Steve.

I've tried the Bilthamber corrosion removal products Deox-C and Deox Gel (thanks to a suggestion from techmanagain) and they really are excellent - quite astonishing in fact!

They also make a range of corrosion prevention products including an anti corrosion wax and a rust converter. The one item they're missing in their range is a flexible underseal paint covering - but they'll be launching this around May 2008.

Bilthamber manufacture product for a number of other brands. They also have a good technical support line if you have any questions.

Another firm - Rustbuster stock the Dinitrol range of corrosion removal/prevention products:

Dinitrol Complete Rust Proofing Kit

Dinitrol Range

There are drawings of the XM available with the Dinitrol kit that show you where to drill into box sections and cavities to ensure complete coverage using their product. (Plugs are supplied.)

Sample Wax Injection Drawing

One of my XM's has been done completely with Dinitrol. From the information I could get at the time Dinitrol appeared to be the best product on the market (widely used on North Sea Oil platforms for example) - and substantially outperforms Waxoyl in a number of areas. However - I've been so impressed with Bilthamber - their rust removal products and tech support - that I'll be doing my other XM using their range when the weather warms up a bit and they release their new underseal paint.

Bilthamber recommend that the surfaces are thoroughly degreased before treatment (which makes sense) and supply a product called Surfex HD - a water based degreasant. I've used this a couple of times now too and have also been incredibly impressed with it. Diluted 1 part to 20 parts water, it way outperforms any other engine bay cleaner I've used at a fraction of the cost.

All in all a firm with an impressive range of products - and well worth a look.

With Dinitrol / Bilthamber the area is cleaned, rust removed/treated, area dried, wax coated and then external areas treated with the stone chip protection underseal paint.

Roy

Hi guys,

Many thanks for all the input and very informative replies. I've been meaning to try Peter's famous 'engine oil in sills' suggestion for ages now, this is as good an opportunity as any.
As for undersealing, I have no particular brand preference, I just want something which is relatively easy to use, and effective at protecting the car.

My S2 already had a sticky, soft, tarmac like underseal in places when I got it. Not sure if this is the manufacturers stuff or a product that someone has applied. It was scraped in a couple of places (probably when we were loading it on and off the car trailer). My cousin gave me this black aerosol of stuff called 'Body Shot', which I sprayed on the exposed parts, and it applied a similar sticky coat of tar, and seems to be holding up well two years later.
I guess something that was similar to this would be ideal, as the existing stuff seems to work well. That, and some kind of oil / waxoyl mix inside the sills. I'll have to look at the links Roy and Steve provided, I've only ever seen the waxoyl stuff, but these things sound like good alternatives.

If I was to get the black bitumen type stuff, is this Ok to use on hydraulic pipes and the like, or is waxoyl style better on those?

The only other thing I was wondering about, is what is used to coat the wheel arches? Its flaking off in the drivers side of my S2. The stuff seems to be different to the underbody sealent, I presume they are?

I've noticed that under the car even the subframe and its bolts are covered with sealent in places, is this the done thing? I'll happily keep it up if so, but was concerned about spraying in places where it shouldn't really go...

Many thanks for all the help, given me a lot to consider!

Cheers

Ciarán

My word. Some excellent stuff here! I was going to say its strange how we have suddenly become so concerned about preserving our XM's, but it isn't of course, they are rapidly declining in numbers now also the effects of the galvanizing, which has preserved them for so many years is now begining to wear off. I remember some of my early cars were well rotten after about 6 or 7 years, by those standards the XM is very well built, and there are still some modern vehicles that rot.

Keep up the good work lads.

Peter.N.