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SamWise1972
Finding this site and deciding to buy an XM has triggered me reading a LOT about old Citroen ownership, and it seems to me that most of the failures I read about are either hoses of one sort or another, or CEF (Comedy Electrical Failures). So, here's my plan. One of the first things I'll do with my XM is to spend a couple of hours going over the engine bay, looking for worn pipes, and dodgy wiring. Experience from my BX suggests that not all the piping by any means will be readily visible, but nevertheless, if the radiator bottom hose is about to give up the ghost, I want to know now, not on the M25. I might also take the opportunity to WD40 every questionable looking fastener I can see.

Then, in the toolkit which I will undoubtedly carry, I'll include a range of Jubilee clips, and perhaps a length of LHM hose in the most common size. One of the great learnings of my trip to India in a 1971 Bedford bus was that many a catastrophe would be averted by getting underneath it once a week, and making sure that no bolts had rattled loose as a result of the appalling roads. I suspect that employing the same approach with the hoses will pay dividends (though maybe once every couple of months will be enough!).

As far as the CEF, how many of these are caused by the actual switchgear or electrical appliances failing, and how many by the wiring? I think that if I want to run my cars for years and years, I should perhaps get into the habit of replacing questionable wiring completely, perhaps with a better grade, and slightly longer, if stretching and bending has caused the failure. Indeed, somewhat longer hoses in the engine bay might be a good idea - an awful lot of failures seem to be down to that too!

Finally, it seems like having a backup car is a good idea. I'm hunting for a CX estate, such as I've wanted since childhood, but my finger is also hovering over an AX diesel, which would be incredibly cheap to buy, run, tax and insure. Would that be a smart move?
DerekW
Heart and head, Sam, heart and head. Why not look for a BX diesel and satisfy both? I saw an immaculate diesel estate in Boston last week and had a quiet drool.

From my experience of owning a 16TRS some years ago they're pretty reliable too.

Derek
beachcomber
AX or CX ??????????????????

A eurobox with all the charm of a squashed badger or an iconic ex. Car of the year Tow car of the year and [IMHO ] the last Citroen that looked like a Citroen and not some generic eurobox.

Difficult decision - not.

DerekW old friend, at the risk of ruffling your feathers again - A BX estate in the same breath as a CX ?????????????

beachcomber
dean
Don't mean to jump in on your argubate, but i would say the Cx is for the heart and a Bx is for the head, actually no forget that, the SM is for the heart, the CX is achievable though wink.gif

Regards Dean
SamWise1972
Ah - I've miscommunicated. I was thinking of a CX and an. AX. A diesel AX as a backup, because it truly is simple, and because I wouldn't care if it got crappy and tatty, and cos it'll do truly astonishing mpg. An XM as my main running-around-mobile for long distances, and a CX (or two. Or more) just because they're too gorgeous for words. I love SM's, but I've been a Maserati fanatic since I had a Bora matchbox toy as a kid, and I would much rather have a REAL Maser than an SM.

I had a BX, and liked it, but it wouldn't really scratch either itch. The hydraulics were the weakness on the one I had, and I reckon I'd be smart to have one car that doesn't have 'em (the Herald aside. I'm not depending on THAT for anything!). So, the AX is smaller, handier, cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, and simpler than a BX, and a CX is way, way, way more awesome. Plus, what I really want from a CX is a Safari, for towing, and for family holidays, and festivals, and things of that nature. Oh, and a Prestige, just because.
dean
Hi Sam

Wasn't the Bora (very nice car) citronised though??? I don't think you can say the sm isn't a 'real' Maserati, mainly because it isn't meant to be! its one of the last great Citroen's. The sm was the pinnacle of Citroen design and technology, just because Citroen used the Maserati engine in it instead of making there own doesn't detract from the car in any way, sure the cx was a very good car but in my opinion nowhere near as beautiful as the sm, of course after the cx peugeot jumped in and watered everything down, by making the vehicles a lot less quirky and distinctive, but then if they hadn't would Citroen have been able stay afloat to produce the Xm and now the C6??????

Dean
SamWise1972
I know it's not trying to be a real Maserati, but if I was going to pay serious coin for a supercar with a Maserati engine, it'd be a Maserati, and one with a straight 6 or a V8 at that. The Bora did indeed have Citroen brakes, but that doesn't put me off it in the least. For me, Citroen were a manufacturer of wonderful large saloons, and fun, quirky small cars. The SM is probably a great GT, but it's not what Citroen are about, for me. Maserati, however, are ALL about GT's......
DerekW
Quote " AX or CX ??????????????????

A eurobox with all the charm of a squashed badger or an iconic ex. Car of the year Tow car of the year and [IMHO ] the last Citroen that looked like a Citroen and not some generic eurobox.

Difficult decision - not.

DerekW old friend, at the risk of ruffling your feathers again - A BX estate in the same breath as a CX ?????????????

beachcomber"

Chacun a son gout, old son. Isn't it lucky we don't all have the same taste? What a boring old world it would be.

Me, I thought the BX was a great car and, at the risk of offending those who are otherwise afflicted, I wouldn't give garage space to a CX.

Derek
Andmcit
The Sm can be used as an everyday car according to every owner I have directly asked
with relation to a Cx - and I've met a few and been on a meeting with them all to the
Beaulieu Motor Museum and around the New Forest.

However it does depend what your expectations are at the off. An Sm occupies the same
space as a Cx but seats two less passengers and has less carrying capacity, and in
comparison to a CX GTi Turbo2 is marginally (depending on which road test you read)
faster using it's more delicate engine.

I accept as a given it has more wow factor, presence or whatever you want to call it but
then there's the cost of getting one!! Let me think, £8 -15k for a nice Sm and 3k for a very
nice Cx that you most definitely use EVERY day of the year come hell or high water.

Such a hard choice?

With my CX GTi T2 I drive a fairly limited daily mileage so can bear the pain of regular trips
to the petrol pump with the upside that I drive such a beautiful car that does get attention
wherever it goes .

Plus, I've had my grille on the Cx snapped off it's mounting legs by some numpty in
Sainsbury's car park so I'd be neurotic about the £1500 glass nosecone on an Sm
especially after it's sunk down - even my Xm's pick up cracked plastic nosecones...

An Xm diesel daily driver would make a perfect foil sharing a garage with a Petrol CX
(Safari or GTi Turbo2). Where does the Ax fit in with this equation? A Xantia TD is better!!

Andrew
SamWise1972
Well, the AX is cheap to buy, will apparently due colossal mpg, and is simpler than "real" Citroens. It'd be an ideal failsafe backup. Boring though. What I really want from a CX is a car I can use regularly. I'd like an Estate because I do have need for a really big vehicle a number of times a year, and because I've just always loved them. I'd love a Turbo 2 as well, but I really wouldn't be able to afford to drive the thing unless I could LPG convert it.

So, the XM is a car I can afford to use everyday, is uber-comfortable and nice to drive. The CX would be an "I want it" car, plus it could be used as an alternate to the XM sometimes, and would be a great load-lugger - moving large things, or lots of people and their camping gear etc. And, when you have two big Citroens and a Herald, there's something to be said for a reliable backup.....thats' where an AX diesel would fit.

An SM just doesn't make the board. If I had the money, I'd spend it on a Maserati Khamsin instead, or an Indy. If I could afford a Bora, nothing would get close.
Andmcit
Actually, I can't remeber the last time I saw an AX.
Is the reality the fact you just don't notice them!?

A Xantia is a brillaint reliable daily driver, great TD economy and brilliant 'go',
well specc'd and can be bought for no money and they don't ask for much in
running/maintenance and are galved and best of all are a mini Xm in many
respects. PLUS, they're a pleasant place to be and drive

I run a TD estate (well 2) along with an Xm V6 24v/2.0iSi TurboCT, the
Cx GTi T2 and an Activa in the daily fleet

Going to work is always fun!!

Andrew
SamWise1972
I dunno. I don't really want a Xant or an AX - it just depends. If the XM and possible CX prove to be insufficiently reliable not to be backed up, I'll have to do something. I need to know with confidence that I can get where I need to go - when people are paying £1200 a day for your time (not directly to me, sadly), they expect you to show up. Also, if fuel keeps going up, the 70 mpg you might get from an AX diesel might start to look really attractive, even if the comfort and fun factor from an XM just isn't there.

I've been finding myself tempted by a VERY tidy 1.9td BX that just keeps getting cheaper on the BX forum. Currently £600 for what forum members say is the nicest BX you'll see.....
aengus-xmv6
Sam

I did consultancy work for a computer vendor for 8 years using an XM 2.0SEi (j) for most of it, then the 2.0SEi auto for a couple months and the V6 for the last 3 years.

Now as a contractor, the V6 is my main (and only) car, so is my daily drive. So far, when I've needed to get somewhere, I have done so. OK on one recent occasion I did have to stop and replace the HP belt after a long traffic delay caused by a lorry fire, but that didn't take long and was down to other hydraulic issues in any case.

I've covered on average 17K business miles/year when consulting and not had any concern about the car. A collegue had his A6 estate recovered after it lost power on the way to a customer - dropped a couple valves. There's no guarantee with any car, regardless of make - they could all break down at any time, but good maintenance makes a big difference.

I don't particularly find the v6 that heavy on fuel either, but then I'm comparing against 2.0i petrols and not diseisel. The v6 is on average better than the old 2.0i non-turbo

regards
Dave
Zeus
QUOTE (aengus-xmv6 @ Jan 20 2008, 23:01 PM)
I don't particularly find the v6 that heavy on fuel either, but then I'm comparing against 2.0i petrols and not diseisel.  The v6 is on average better than the old 2.0i non-turbo

Exactly. The consumption of V6s doesn't really differ from that of 2.0i and (even more) 2.0 turbo C.T. Therefore, I often wonder whether it is weaker engines that are so enormously uneconomical or it is V6s that are so fuel-efficient?
But as far as the petrol engines are concerned, Citroen, sadly, hasn't really been famous for their economy... E.g. petrol Xantias — despite the fact that they are remarkably smaller ant lighter, they have a, so to speak, healthy appetite... rolleyes.gif
SamWise1972
Let's face it, Citroen might be justly famous for their diesel engines (amongst other things), but they've never had a huge reputation for their petrol engines. As I say, however, an LPG V6 might be interesting.....
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