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DerekW
Hi All,

I'm about to start the hunt to cure the "ABS OUT OF USE" message that has suddenly reared its ugly head on my my 2.0 turbo estate. I decided the best way is to tackle both front sensors together, then both rears.

It is with some trepidation that I ask such a simple question of such knowledgeable company. I have a crocodile jack and a pair of axle stands that I made 35 years ago - over engineering at its best, they'd support a Chieftain tank. I don't trust the cill jacking points so where is the best place to jack and support the front end? Bearing in mind that my (over engineered) supports have 10 inch baseplates, so the support point can't be closer than six inches to the jacking point.

At the front under the subframe there is a welded on loop of steel bar on each side about 3/8 inch diam. that looks ideal for jacking but as I don't know how the front of the subframe is attached I'm nervous about loading a cantelever structure.

Why can't I ask a simple question in one sentence?

All contributions gratefully recieved.

Derek




demag
Hello Derek,

In my recent (failed sad.gif ) attempt to repair my steering ram/rack connection. I jacked on the front subframe from just behind the front wheels. There are two big beefy bolt heads presumably the subframe rear mountings behind the wheels on either side. That is where I jacked.

I put my stands just to the rear of there again under the body on a fairly substancial box section type chassis rail running fore and aft under the footwell/seat area. That left the steering rack about two or three inches above my nose when lying on my back. One comforting thought was if it had fell on me I wouldn't have known much about it! huh.gif In actual fact it was very solid and I gave it a fairly good shake before I got under and nothing moved.

The wheelarch area was in a perfect position for working on as well smile.gif . Like you I NEVER jack under cills.
Peter.N.
Hi Derek

The front jacking point under the sill is indeed very fragile, or at least tends to fold over when using an ordinary jack. What I have done is to cut a piece of about 1" angle iron, about the length of the jacking area and place it between the jack and the sill. this seems to distribute the weight along a sufficient length to prevent damage.

Peter.N.
robertxmb
Hi Derek,
Not sure what a crocodile jack is but it seems formidable! I bought a 3 ton garage type trolley jack for £80 a few years ago and never regretted it because jacking is no longer the dreaded chore it used to be causing me to put off jobs.
Like Demaq I use the flat frame inboard of the wishbones and slightly towards the rear. In fact I use a heavy wood 'plank' which spans these areas to lift the front in one go with the trolley jack. This still leaves enough room to deploy the stands without having to use the jacking points, although I have used them in the past as they are sound.It seems the large plates on your stands may interfere with use of the jack. you may need to invest in a couple of regular stands. your present ones would be useful for the rear and other applications where a large supporting surface is required.
R.
mouseflakes
On a similar subject, I've heard of the fragility of the XM jacking points and I wondered what other owners do when they hand their cars over to tyre fitting centres - I'm fearful of the practices these guys used since they jacked my Renault 30 on the seam at the lower edge of the sill - never intended as a jacking point. When I pointed out the correct (and very obviously built for the job) jacking point to the guy he just told me they jack all cars that way these days. There's now a 12 inch length of sill seam folded over on my poor old Renner sad.gif
DerekW
Thank you, Dave, Peter, Robert and Tim.

I see most of you share my suspicions about the cill jacking points. Following your advice I'll use the cross member behind the engine.

Many thanks once again.

Derek

ps A crocodile jack is another name for a trolley jack, so named because of the way the lifting arm moves like a crocodile's jaw.
robertxmb
Thats alright then! CheersDerek.
R.
xmexclusive
Hi All

I can confirm that your concerns about the strength/suitability of the XM body shell jacking points are well founded. They are constructed from a number of thin pressed steel sheets spot welded together. On the ones I have examined in detail even those not actually bent may have some distortion of the individual plates which opens seams and leads to internal rusting of the box sections. Some of the bent up ones damage the chassis corner very badly. This damage is mainly internal split seams and can only be seen with the carpet and underlay lifted.
I was happily using virtually anywhere convinient on the subframes as my jacking points until the recent reports of heavy corrosion on 2.5 front subframes. Now I check even these before lifting.

Regards

XMexc
Peter.N.
Hi XMexc


I was aware of the 'delaminating' problem causing rust, so have given mine a good dose of engine oil inside the sills, enough to run out everywhere! This was my method of corosion control in all my old cars before the days of galvanising - and it was very effective - needs doing about once a year.

Peter.N.
Ciaran
I keep meaning to get around to oiling the inside of the sills etc... anyone got an opinion on a good entry point for that?

Cheers

Ciarán
Assich
I have had 3 XM's and never had a problem with using the built in jacking point. I do use a jack that fits in the cut out section though and not one that will goe across the whole length of the section. I would say that if the jacking point goes then it's almost certainly an early sign that your cills are on their way out too.b Ignorance is not always bliss.
Peter.N.
Hi Assich

I think all my XMs in the last 10 years or more have had the collapsed jacking point syndrome, strangely, usually only on the drivers side! but I have never had a problem with rust. If its possible to jack vertically I am sure the proscribed points would support the weight, the problem seems to be that if you use a trolley jack it exerts lateral force and bends the metal sideways, its then no longer able to support the weight and folds over.

Peter.N.
Peter.N.
Ciaran - Sorry I forget to comment on the oil entry point. What I usually do is to remove one of the self tapping screws that holds the trim on inside the car, and squirt an oilcan full through the hole, if you do that front and back the oil will normally come out all along the bottom of the sill.

Peter.N.
Ciaran
Thank you Peter.

That sounds easy enough, might try it later... will have plenty of sand on standby for when it inevitibly runs out the bottom biggrin.gif

Do you squirt your patented oil and waxoyl mix down here, or do that elsewhere?

Cheers

Ciarán
Ciaran
Re the collapsed jacking points, one of them is folded over on my S2, and one is partially. What I do now when visiting tyre places and the like, is bring a jack from my old Vauxhall Cavalier with me. Its much quicker and easier to use than the Citroen scissor jack, and the jack head actually grips around the sides of the jacking lip like tweezers, rather than just bluntly pushing on the underside of it like most trolley jacks.
I also keep an old towel in the boot for various things, and it comes in handy for stuffing between a trolley jack head, and the sides of the jacking point, on the odd occasion where I'm forced to use one.

Since seeing some knuckle head in a tyre place try, and fail to fit his jack into the point on my S2, then subsequently attempting to jack it up by the sill lip when he failed, I always take my own jack, and raise the car myself at those places now.
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