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Full Version XM 2.5 TD Electric Window winder problem

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noz
Hi All,

Apparently a common fault on all series 2 XM's is the window winder mechanism failure. Having compared a series 1 to a series 2 it makes you wonder about Citroen sometimes. The series one has a nylon pulley top and bottom which carry the guide wires which are approx 2.5mm dia. On the series 2, presumably to reduce cost they replaced the bottom pulley with a stationary piece of nylon and reduced the wire dia to approx 1.5mm. The result is that the cable fails.

Citroen want £165 for a whole new drive mechanism. No chance. I obtained a roll of braided wire of the correct diameter (very important - take my word for it ! ) and repaired the broken wire. The trick was how to make the ends. The factory ends are hexagonal in section and are crimped on to the end of the wire in a hydraulic press. Having none of those things, I had to improvise. By drilling out the centre of an 8mm length of 6inch nail with a 2 mm drill I had a ready made end. I slipped it over the end of the wire with a little perseverance and hit it several times with a hammer, rotating it as I went. I threaded the wire through the outers and the plastic guides and fixed another piece of 6 inch nail to the other end.

An important trick is to get the length of the wire almost exactly right. I got it wrong on several attempts before I realised the importance of the length. As one end of the wire unwinds from the drum the other end of the second wire is winding on to the drum at the same rate. Essentially, all the grooves on the drum should be filled with wire no matter the position of the window. There should be no empty grooves. The two springs on the cable ends should be well compressed when the wire wrapped around the drum correctly.

The mechanism was fed through the holes in the door (proficiency in chinese puzzles or the Rubicks cube a necessity for this part)and refitted. The glass was refitted and the door inner cover replaced. The window works a treat on both the manual and the one-touch buttons.

Hope this helps someone. If you need to know the details let me know.

cheers

noz 8)
jockduffy
Hi Noz,

If you could supply me with the cable length that would be great.
I will try to follow your repair advice as my drivers door cable has broken into multiple pieces.
I also found some black rubber slotted strips about 3/4" long lying at the bottom of the door, are these part of the mechanism too?
Did you replace with the stronger 2.5mm dia or the 1.5mm dia as per ser2.

Thanks
jock
noz
Jock,

To measure the length of the cable I'd need to take the whole mechanism back out of the car. We're away the next two weekends and then away for a couple of weeks holiday in the caravan. So I'm afraid I can't get to it for a while.

Since I wrote that post I have repaired another and there's a way to do it without knowing the length in advance. Presuming that at least one bit of cable is in a whole enough condition to measure then make up one cable that length. Put it onto the winder drum. Next put an end on the next cable leaving some length spare. Insert the end in the winder drum and operate the motor until the mechanism is approx 50:50 open:closed. ALL the grooves should be filled with cable with no spare grooves. This is very important. Put the cable in it's correct locations and stretch to meet the plastic glass carrier. With both tensioning springs compressed, mark the cable at the right length at the plastic glass carrier. Put the second end on and put back in the carrier. Use plenty grease on the cable, drum and sliders.

Hey presto, a fixed winder mechanism at a fraction of the cost.

I don't recognise the black rubber strips I'm afraid. They're not part of the mechanism as far as I know.

You don't have a choice I'm afraid about the diameter of the cable for S2. Any larger diameter won't fit around the drum and any thinner will just break. You'll have to find a diameter which is just right. The stuff I used came from a contractor who installs ductwork for HVAC systems. The cable is used as duct hangers coupled with 'Gripple' locking ties. If you find a local ductwork contractor or mechanical parts suppliers, theyre sure to have it.

Hope this helps.

noz cool.gif
jockduffy
Hi Noz,

Thanks for the info, sorry for the delay in reply, I use a library computer right now and I lost the club address ( they dont keep anything in favourites in my library system), shamefull I know.

I have since repaired the cable system, here are my details.

Tools required:
Side wire cutters.
Soldering Iron.
Flux.
Solder (about 3" required)
Small straight edged screwdriver.
Grease (I used wheel bearing).
Time for cable repair and rewind on bench: 30mins.

I bought 3 meters of 1.65mm dia stranded cable out of B & Q for 45p per meter and a strip of 3 amp electrical connectors for 75p at the local hardware emporium.
(Try ensure it's 3 amp as it fits very nicely into the holding slots)
The long top cable measures in at 1185mm.
The short bottom cable measures in at 1005mm.

Seperate the connectors into singles from the strip and cut off the insulating plastic.
Tighten down one screw clamp at one end.
Open other screw clamp completely and insert cable till it hits the closed screw, tighten down open screw clamp.
Use side cut wire cutters and cut the connector between both screw clamps.
Flux and solder both ends of clamp and a blob on the screw clamp to stop the threads turning at sometime in the future.
Grease up thread cable thru protective sleeve.
Repeat procedure for other end of cable.
Repeat procedure for second cable.

Hope this is of use to others. ph34r.gif
Peter N
Hi Noz

I have never had a window problem until now that is. I have just changed my 291k mile Mk 2 for a 114k mile one, with almost the same registration No! Its a very nice car but guess what, the O/S rear window is being held up by a wedge. Do you know if a Mk1 mechanism will fit a Mk2 door? as I know of a few scrap ones.

Peter N.
noz
Hi Peter,

Yes the S1 mechanism fits in the door of a S2. The only problem is when you come to the drivers door since it has the One-Touch mechanism installed. There's no One Touch in the S1 so you will lose that feature if you swap it.

The S1 has much stronger(thicker) cable than the S2 and hence it's much more robust.

Where in the country are you? Where are the S1's in the scrappy? Add the info to the scrappy section of this forum if you don't mind.

Please let us know how you get on.

Thanks

Noz cool.gif
mebedforduk
Hmmm.........
My S1 1993 Si had one touch
both my S2s VSX have not

Strange but true

Mark
noz
well you learn something new every day !

noz cool.gif
Peter N
Thanks for the info Noz. I live on the Dorset/Devon border near Lyme Regis.There are the remains of three XMs at Angel Autos on the Dorchester to Yeovil road and one near Beaminster in Dorset. The affected window is the O/S rear so shouldn't be a problem

Peter.N.

P.S. M&M motors at Holmbridge Yorks have a good stock of Citroen spares, I used to get my CX spares from them as I often used to pass that way.
Peter.N.
The electric window saga.

The offside rear window in my newly acquired Mk2, 2.1 td estate, not only didn't work but when I investigated I found that the mechanism was actually missing! The window was held up by a wooden wedge. I obtained one from a Mk1 door (thanks Noz) which fitted perfectly but still didnt work, or at least it would open but not close. After a considerable ammount of checking for o/c wiring, as there was an earth return missing, I eventually found that the console switch was faulty, as were both the secondhand ones I had in stock. These switches can be repaired, sometimes by an application of WD40 but in my case dismantling was necessary. The brass contacts seem to oxidise, but if you take the switch apart (being careful not to loose the two small springs and roller contacts) you can scrape the brass clean with a small screwdriver, this effected a perfect repair and I now have a full set of working windows.

It is not necessary, as per Haynes manual, to remove the glass, you can slide it right to the top and retain it with a couple of rubber wedges. If you happen to have a scrap TV lying about, the wedges between the scan coils and rear of the tube are perfect for the job.

I have a spare o/s rear door if anyone cares to come and collect it. It is dark metalic red, the paint is unfortunatly scratched but the door is in otherwise good condition. (minus the window mechanism)

Peter.N.
noz
now I knew that black & white portable in the loft would come in handy one day wink.gif


nozB)
Peter.N.
sad.gif Sorry Noz, they only use them on colour sets!

Peter.N.
noz
You'd ever believe it but my drivers window has packed in again. No doubt one of the ends has come off again.

Tomorrows job, weather permitting.

Noz sad.gif
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