Hi all.
Is anyone watching the 1972 DS 20 Safari on Ebay at the moment?My mechanical prowess(lack of it)has been well documented on this site in the past.I have always desired a DS and for my work I do need an Estate.I suspect rust is the main worry with them..anything in particular or just everywhere?The seller has described it needing a new starter motor,but as this one is RHD you need to remove the steering rack to get at it(coming out in a cold sweat already at the prospect!)?
I would guess the DS is simpler in construction and easier to work on than our beloved XM's?
Any comments constructive or otherwise would be welcome!
Regards Rob

Hi Rob

I like the idea but I wouldn't be brave enough to go for it. How about a CX? they are huge, the handling is superb, and in some ways easier to work on than the XM and you can get them in diesel! I ran them for 10 years and wouldn't mind another one

Peter.N.

Hi Rob,

Don't know if I'm going to be much help to you as I have to cast my mind back 40 years to when I owned an ID (cheaper version of the DS) in Aden of all places.

I don't think rust was as big a problem as it was on the CX. The body panels aren't stressed in the way an integral construction car is, for example the rear wings on the saloon (can't speak for the estate) are each held on by one bolt removed by the wheel spanner. I actually repainted mine whilst still using it - driving around for example with no bonnet and no driver's door.

Front brakes are inboard, so easy to work on. Gearbox is at the front of the engine. Being fore and aft, the engine is much easier to work on than our transverse ones although the engine is half buried in the scuttle. Wheels are secured by those delightful single nut expanding cone devices that Citroen designed.

My wife loved the ID/DS, I'm now going to have a look on ebay.

Derek

Hi

From what I know of DS's (I've been looking at them for a while whilst whistfully thinking of purchasing one) the Safari Estates are much rarer since they sufferred much more rear end rot than the saloons. With cars of this ages is really does make financial sense to buy the best one you can or spend alot of money repairing a rust bucket.

Now all I want is a RHD 2.3 Pallas in dark a dark colour with leather and no rust......

Cheers

Tony

Oops, there's a lot of work needed there. Alright for a long term restoration project but not if you want a working car.

I forgot to mention a top speed of 80 mph, a bit slow by present day standards.

Derek

I'd love a D and getting a saloon does appeal to me; after spannering for years on
GS's/Xm's/CX's and 2CV's I guess I should give one a go. What stops me is the still
silly money for basket cases and the strong money for just about sorted but scruffy
ones and as I'll freely admit to being a 'tight git' I'll never splurge big money for one...

Did seriously consider buying one in France a few years back didn't although I wish
I had now and have driven many and talked myself out of buying them on lots of
occasions - don't really know why I bottled it...

Whilst I love it I don't fancy the 'will-it-work or will-it-disintegrate' engine in the SM,
a car which is 'just' a Cx with two doors lopped off after ball...

Andrew

Hi Rob,

I haven't seen the car in question (at work, ebay banned site ) I ran a few ID/DS's and they are lovely cars. I took the starter off one of mine but definitely didn't strip any steering down. However it is VERY tight in there!

From what I remember there are lots of engine ancilliaries held on with 6mm pins that have 11mm hex heads! Even the gearbox bellhousing has 'em (did a clutch).

Mechanically they were very sound don't remember many major problems apart from the clutch. The footbrake is a button on the floor, on or off! A friend of mine had a drive round the block in mine and banged his head when he hit the brakes! Even though I warned him the brakes were powerful.

They can be awkward to drive in rutted snow as the rear track is a lot less than the front and the rear wheels constantly jump from one rut to the other .
Also the very sharp brakes require respect in snow or slippy conditions as it's easy to lock the wheels.

The roofs bolt on and all mine leaked! I took one off and sealed every where I could see and it still leaked . Yes the rear of the safaris are prone to rot under the wings and floor area.

I will say this with confidence though. If you buy one and use it, you will fall passionately in love with it . As far as driving experiences go there is nothing quite like it.

Hi all
Many thanks for all the replies! Especially the comments about driving them in the snow. As you can see from my id I have an Isetta bubblecar...luckily mine is a 4 wheeler with 24" in between my rear wheels but I have listened to many stories of driving the 3 wheelers in snow!!! I am going to speak with the seller tomorrow morning,positives are that it has been owned by the same chap for 20 years and it didn't fail the MOT on corrosion(presumably when it was mothballed 5 years ago). As kids we used to travel across London(North Circular...pre-M25...how did we ever live without it!) to my Grans in Upminster and we got points for unusual cars we saw on the way and the DS was always a good spot! One reversed up at the Ace as I was eating my full English Breakfast at 7pm......I was mesmerised by how bouncy and comfortable it looked. As for the 80mph top speed...thats fine,especially as I am also looking for a ripple bonnet 2cv van with a 425cc engine! Before you ask the Isetta is 298cc and its not how fast you get there...more if/when you get there!
I think this site is great but it tends to be a funnel for all our woes,if you read it you would never buy an XM(especially after reading Noz's post about everything that has gone wrong with his cars). Mine has just passed 20K in 7 months and I have every confidence in it. My dad has just had a service on his Volvo at many hundreds of pounds(this cost more than I paid for my XM and he has done 4K in comparison to my 20K in roughly thr same period) and I don't think our cars are anymore expensive to run than many others on the road today,especially as most members do a lot of work themselves.
I am not saying the 2000 V6 24V(mentioned on this site) is overpriced but it would take a brave person to pay that for it as there are no guarantees the box won't go or other major expense develop.
If there was such a forum when the Traction Avant was replaced by the DS/ID,the DS was replaced by the CX(most relevant as many of you ran the CX)and of course the XM being replaced by the C5/6.I bet the comments would all be pretty similar.
So back to the DS...I'll let you know how I get on...maybe he'll swap it for my XM!!
Thanks again
Regards Rob

Rob, I think you're mad!!


But then,


so am I!!

Go for it!! One of the cars in life you need to drive before you die apparently!!

Why not go for broke and get; http://tinyurl.com/yj6rn8

Andrew

this may be useful too:

http://tinyurl.com/y6oazp



Andrew

Looks useful Andrew. He won't get much trade from XM owners, I've never seen a worn XM seat, well not a velour one anyway.

Peter.N.

Hi Rob,

Our 2 cars are an XM and an ID. They do kind of compliment each other.

When buying D's there are many pitfalls to watch out for - as I'm sure you're aware - but the most common one is people assuming a car is solid, because it has a good/new paint job. There are many 'lemons' out there.

Safari's sometimes fare better (than saloons) as far as rust goes in the chassis, because the steel is thicker, however, bodywork (rear windows/wheel arches/tailgate) rusts like there is no tomorrow.

Parts are mostly readily available - as are repair sections for the rusty bits.

As far as speed goes - they're not limited to 80MPH, the later ones will do 120mph.

As has previously been said, buy the best you can afford, but also get someone who knows them to check it over before you part with any money.
as it can save you a lot of money and hassle in the long run.

Cheers
Kris

Remove the steering rack to replace the starter? Well, no. But some people do remove the steering column. Regardless you do need to remove the exhaust manifold which also requires removal of the airfilter. You also need to disconnect the manifold from the engine pipe and remove the hydraulic pump. As most of the work is easiest done via the special access way in the boot, any competent Citroen mechanic will tell you it's easy

As you can see from my sig, we have gone the full loony collection and have a D Special, CX (the new addition to the fleet) and of course the XM. So far (he says bravely) I am finding the CX seems to be the easiest to work on. As me in a few months though

The D is not so bad, especially if you get carried away and get the front wings off. But as you would expect with any car 30plus years old, there are challenges that need to be addressed from time to time. Fortunately for us here in Aus, rust is not as big a problem as you guys in the UK have. But you have to stay ahead of it.

That safari requires a keen and cashed up enthusiast. It does not look or sound like a weekend fixup wonder.