I don't know about anyone else, but I have never seen a C6 - even driving the length of France this summer with a family of 4 all keen to see one. I had a chat with Paul Johnson this summer about it and he attributed the problem to high price and the heavy depreciation. I believe the CEO of PSA-Citroen has also resigned (or is to..) due to profit downturn. So what happens to the C6 to make it viable?
One possibility.. throw away all that design and tooling up. Seems a hard hit to take.
Nothing much can be done about the depreciation; every Citroen in the last 25 years has had heavy depreciation and that isn't going to change any time soon.
The third possibility.. reduce the production costs to reduce the high price. Do away with the head-up display, the headlamps seeing round corners and all that nonsense and make it a more basic car. What've you got - a replacement XM!
Any views on this theory and the attractions of the C6 as an XM replacement?
Andrew
Full Version C6 Theory
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Hi Andrew.
I've had a gander at the C6 at my local dealer and frankly (and sadly) just don't see their anticipated market at the price. As a private buyer you would be need to be certifiable to spend just short of 40k on a brand that is in reality, however unfairly, a byword for depreciation with its larger offerings. As an image marque, they are just not there with the German players.
Given the proliferation of gizmos on even fairly humble offerings, I think people are less and less impressed and simply expect all the bells and whistles as a matter of course. My advice to Citroen (for which they are welcome to pay me, if they wish !!) is get real. You are doing well in attracting the young driver market; Work hard at the repmobile C5 reliablity, reputation and depreciation and then place the C6 as the aspirational choice for those who become the core Citroen enthusiasts. In todays competitive environment, I can't see the C6 being any more than a 20k (ish) to 30K new car at best. Critically, they must do an estate. If there was one area where the XM really did earn genuine respect, it was for being the ultimate big estate (and it is !) I believe the UK is one of the bigger European markets for the estate vehicle and there is always a place for a genuine performer, in every sense, in that market. Finally, as it's a 'family' developed engine, how about putting the Land Rover TDV8 in the C6 ? Give the customers something to properly drool over, rather than just be sensible about.
From my experience at the dealership however, what will absolutely sink the C6 is the self evident lack of belief among the sales people. They wouldn't discuss a deal; wouldn't make any kind of sweetening offer on my XM and when I asked if they had actually sold any C6, made it pretty plain they hadn't and weren't expecting to any time soon. Mr Citroen needs a team of mystery shoppers to do a tour, if my experience is typical. The world isn't short of good (in the genuine sense) car sales people and the dealership owners need a rocket up their whatsits to start properly motivating their staff, or changing them.
Mike.
I've had a gander at the C6 at my local dealer and frankly (and sadly) just don't see their anticipated market at the price. As a private buyer you would be need to be certifiable to spend just short of 40k on a brand that is in reality, however unfairly, a byword for depreciation with its larger offerings. As an image marque, they are just not there with the German players.
Given the proliferation of gizmos on even fairly humble offerings, I think people are less and less impressed and simply expect all the bells and whistles as a matter of course. My advice to Citroen (for which they are welcome to pay me, if they wish !!) is get real. You are doing well in attracting the young driver market; Work hard at the repmobile C5 reliablity, reputation and depreciation and then place the C6 as the aspirational choice for those who become the core Citroen enthusiasts. In todays competitive environment, I can't see the C6 being any more than a 20k (ish) to 30K new car at best. Critically, they must do an estate. If there was one area where the XM really did earn genuine respect, it was for being the ultimate big estate (and it is !) I believe the UK is one of the bigger European markets for the estate vehicle and there is always a place for a genuine performer, in every sense, in that market. Finally, as it's a 'family' developed engine, how about putting the Land Rover TDV8 in the C6 ? Give the customers something to properly drool over, rather than just be sensible about.
From my experience at the dealership however, what will absolutely sink the C6 is the self evident lack of belief among the sales people. They wouldn't discuss a deal; wouldn't make any kind of sweetening offer on my XM and when I asked if they had actually sold any C6, made it pretty plain they hadn't and weren't expecting to any time soon. Mr Citroen needs a team of mystery shoppers to do a tour, if my experience is typical. The world isn't short of good (in the genuine sense) car sales people and the dealership owners need a rocket up their whatsits to start properly motivating their staff, or changing them.
Mike.
You point re. the sales staff at Citroen is spot on. In March I looked around with a freind for a second hand small car for him (Glasgow). At least good service everywhere. In Arnoldclark, the only thing they didn't do was to lay as a red carpet when entering the shop...At Citroen, we got there, have been looking at the cars out in the cold, 2 salesmen just looking at us from within their miserable pre-fab shed they had for 2nd and cars staff; WE had to go to them and inform them why we were there for. They were like the worst public employees I've met... The C6 in this dealership is cramped among Saxos etc and u don't even notice it even from within, honestly. I was expecting they would have put it on a ramp, outside, or in the middle of the showroom, with some spots shedding light on it, day AND night. How unsufficient they are. Have you ever been to a Lexus dealership? Or even looked in from the window?
Citroen needs to create a larger range for the C6 or any other lux car it makes. It needs to be in press often. Strategies "1 model every 15 years" don't work anymore. It needs an estate, it needs 4-wheel drive (so they can stick in any larger engine). Citroen have flirted with 4x4, but haven't harvested its real and marketing potential, like Audi. It is even consistent with the marque's image as providing superiorly-road-behaved cars. Now, imagine a C6, a tad more futuristic tahn they actually made it, 4x4, and a flat-6 engine: this would SERIOULSY attract some people. (flat-6: again, they have toyed with in the past; outsource it cheap from Subary nowadays).
But the problem of UK-support is really the worst, it will ruin the good-to-low chances of the car. A typical case in management studies, though (total High versus low-level internal interest conflict)
George
Citroen needs to create a larger range for the C6 or any other lux car it makes. It needs to be in press often. Strategies "1 model every 15 years" don't work anymore. It needs an estate, it needs 4-wheel drive (so they can stick in any larger engine). Citroen have flirted with 4x4, but haven't harvested its real and marketing potential, like Audi. It is even consistent with the marque's image as providing superiorly-road-behaved cars. Now, imagine a C6, a tad more futuristic tahn they actually made it, 4x4, and a flat-6 engine: this would SERIOULSY attract some people. (flat-6: again, they have toyed with in the past; outsource it cheap from Subary nowadays).
But the problem of UK-support is really the worst, it will ruin the good-to-low chances of the car. A typical case in management studies, though (total High versus low-level internal interest conflict)
George
I guess the absence of C6's on the road is proof that they are not selling.. Do you think they will have to take a more realistic view of what they can achieve price-wise and equip the car on that basis? ie/ do away with some of the techy gimmicks and produce something in the former XM price bracket? Also, does anyone think that a stripped down C6 would be rather like an XM or is it "a different kettle of fish altogether" to use a metaphor with really poor imagery!
Andrew
Andrew
With regard to the very high price, goes anyone know how rhe continental prices compare to the UK ones?
This page has several low mileage C6's for sale in Lille..
http://www.auto-lille.com/occasion-voiture...108&modele=1012
looks like about Euro 50k (£32k) for one with about 8,000 km
Andrew
http://www.auto-lille.com/occasion-voiture...108&modele=1012
looks like about Euro 50k (£32k) for one with about 8,000 km
Andrew
Hi All
I thought that the C6 in the enterance hall of the Beaulieu Motor Museum was the only C6 in the Uk. Still it must be the only one in England as George has seen one well hidden in Glasgow.
Regards
XMexc
I thought that the C6 in the enterance hall of the Beaulieu Motor Museum was the only C6 in the Uk. Still it must be the only one in England as George has seen one well hidden in Glasgow.
Regards
XMexc
Hi, I have been waiting for a few C6's to appear so that I can assess it as my replacement for the XM when/if they make an estate version with a sizable diesel in it. Used of course!! Could never afford a new one or even justify the cost even if I could afford one.
My current XM estate replaced a Range Rover and apart from the non 4x4 it does all that the RR did and with less cost.
We need a good big estate and the C6 could be excellent. I concur with the lax attitude of car sales 'persons' even our regional dealer in Cambridge can be a bit off putting. I occasionally have to go into a Porsche dealer (for occasional spares) and the coffee is even offered to me without any expectation or pressure from sales.
Come on Citroen, wake up and put some effort into the promotion.
I was reading an online critique of the C6 and was listed as a product from the PSA spares bin - surely not!
Perhaps they should offer one to us to test drive and we could feature it here on the forum
Robin
My current XM estate replaced a Range Rover and apart from the non 4x4 it does all that the RR did and with less cost.
We need a good big estate and the C6 could be excellent. I concur with the lax attitude of car sales 'persons' even our regional dealer in Cambridge can be a bit off putting. I occasionally have to go into a Porsche dealer (for occasional spares) and the coffee is even offered to me without any expectation or pressure from sales.
Come on Citroen, wake up and put some effort into the promotion.
I was reading an online critique of the C6 and was listed as a product from the PSA spares bin - surely not!
Perhaps they should offer one to us to test drive and we could feature it here on the forum
Robin
Pavesa, I think this would be wrong as the whole bet is to convince people that Citroen CAN play in expensive cars whether succesfully or not, but it tells "I'm present"). If they did this at this point, it would just show defeat and ruin all the effort they have put in trying to lable the C6 as a luxury car. Whether it would have been a better strategy to have launched it from start as a cheaper car, that's another question...
I think that price-wise, Citroen has played the card of taking advantage of its very loyal clients (for the flagship models, soon they will loose this achievement too). So it is probably hoping of selling not many, but making some money(or, not loosing too much).
From what a guy from the Nederlands had written in the XML, who replaced his XM with a C6, the C6 is an overall much better car, in another class, he said, and he definitely prefered it -was in love with it-.
The fact that even TopGear have classified it in their "Cool" cars category, says something. I rmemebr their TV-test said the ride "is like silk". Technologicaly, the great advance compared to the XM is that the hydractive has now *really* become an active suspension (while the Hydractive I and II could be described as "semi-active"). The C6 reads the road with its front suspension and it dynamically adjusts the rear (in two modes again, I think). So, active, but at the rear only. The exact set-up remains a mystery to me, because, from a French video I've seen, it appears that the C6 has only 2 spheres in front (plus the accumulator) but 4 at the rear. So, have they abandonded the front soft/hard adjustment and decided the rear is the one that really matters? Or, are all the "middle" -as per XM- spheres, at the rear? Unfortunately I can't find info on that....
Except of the "hidden" one, I've also seen in Glasgow on the road a very beautiful C6 in black, there were two white-collar men in it.
George
I think that price-wise, Citroen has played the card of taking advantage of its very loyal clients (for the flagship models, soon they will loose this achievement too). So it is probably hoping of selling not many, but making some money(or, not loosing too much).
From what a guy from the Nederlands had written in the XML, who replaced his XM with a C6, the C6 is an overall much better car, in another class, he said, and he definitely prefered it -was in love with it-.
The fact that even TopGear have classified it in their "Cool" cars category, says something. I rmemebr their TV-test said the ride "is like silk". Technologicaly, the great advance compared to the XM is that the hydractive has now *really* become an active suspension (while the Hydractive I and II could be described as "semi-active"). The C6 reads the road with its front suspension and it dynamically adjusts the rear (in two modes again, I think). So, active, but at the rear only. The exact set-up remains a mystery to me, because, from a French video I've seen, it appears that the C6 has only 2 spheres in front (plus the accumulator) but 4 at the rear. So, have they abandonded the front soft/hard adjustment and decided the rear is the one that really matters? Or, are all the "middle" -as per XM- spheres, at the rear? Unfortunately I can't find info on that....
Except of the "hidden" one, I've also seen in Glasgow on the road a very beautiful C6 in black, there were two white-collar men in it.
George
i was in Glasgow Citroen the other day, and was enquring about te C6.
Managed to convince the salesman i had £40k to spend on a Citroen.
He's booked me in for a test drive in teh 2.7 V6 HDi next month sometime.
According to the salesman in Glasgow Citroen, he said there are 27 C6's sitting at dealerships throughout the UK.
Apparently there are 5 registered somewhere in Scotland.
David.
Managed to convince the salesman i had £40k to spend on a Citroen.
He's booked me in for a test drive in teh 2.7 V6 HDi next month sometime.
According to the salesman in Glasgow Citroen, he said there are 27 C6's sitting at dealerships throughout the UK.
Apparently there are 5 registered somewhere in Scotland.
David.
What a fascinating train of conversation this thread has triggered. The other day there were two C6 sat at my local dealership, which isn't even the local main showroom, so that leaves just 25 for the rest of the UK ???!!!!!! I wonder if they've decided to try the scarce / desirable / waiting list approach to selling it but once you sign, it's there tomorrow ?
As elsewhere in this thread, at my dealer, although they have one in the showroom, you would never know it's the star car. (The other one was outside, parked in a row of various models, totally anonymous) No special lighting; no raised platform; no dedicated 'lifestyle' accessories. Absolutely nothing to draw the eye, far less tempt you to sign the cheque. I just can't believe having made what must be the substantial investment to develop the model there is no apparent marketing budget whatsoever.
Given that quite literally probably 90 plus percent of the motoring population don't have a clue about the launch of the C6, perhaps the best course would be to seriously trim the price (there must be a hefty margin in them at all but 40k -- they're not that stuffed with goodies ! ) and have a proper national launch with some serious advertising. The competition must be rolling around laughing at the incredible pre emptive defeatist attitude Citroen have come out with.
I would love to know whether anyone of any consequence at Citroen ever browses groups such as this; if so --- for goodness sake -- WAKE UP !!!!!!!
Mike.
As elsewhere in this thread, at my dealer, although they have one in the showroom, you would never know it's the star car. (The other one was outside, parked in a row of various models, totally anonymous) No special lighting; no raised platform; no dedicated 'lifestyle' accessories. Absolutely nothing to draw the eye, far less tempt you to sign the cheque. I just can't believe having made what must be the substantial investment to develop the model there is no apparent marketing budget whatsoever.
Given that quite literally probably 90 plus percent of the motoring population don't have a clue about the launch of the C6, perhaps the best course would be to seriously trim the price (there must be a hefty margin in them at all but 40k -- they're not that stuffed with goodies ! ) and have a proper national launch with some serious advertising. The competition must be rolling around laughing at the incredible pre emptive defeatist attitude Citroen have come out with.
I would love to know whether anyone of any consequence at Citroen ever browses groups such as this; if so --- for goodness sake -- WAKE UP !!!!!!!
Mike.
PS. If your dealer can't get off his backside any faster than within the next month to deliver a test drive in a major city, I'm afraid I'd let him know exactly where I wouldn't be spending my money !
Mike.
Mike.
The dealer in Exeter had two in stock several months ago. I didn't have the cheek to ask for a drive but I had a good look at the one in the showroom. The front is huge but not so much room in the back, not as much as a CX anyway. Unless they make an manual diesel estate, I'm afraid I shant be interested.'
Peter.N.
Peter.N.
I think I saw some advertising for the C6 in The Times and they seemed to be making a big deal out of it not being likely that you would see many running around - ultimate exclusivity.. I'm sure it is more exclusive at the moment than they would hope though!
I was interested to see that the Auto Lille website above had as many as 9 used C6's in stock. I guess Lille isn't such a big place, and this is just one dealer, so maybe there are more in France than I thought. As I say, I drove all the way down to Barcelona in the summer and didn't see a single one - loads of XM's though, I think the Toulouse area must be XM heaven! Nice weather, it's nice to think that all these old faithfuls find a nice sunny place to loll away the rest of time.... what am I saying..!
I was interested to see that the Auto Lille website above had as many as 9 used C6's in stock. I guess Lille isn't such a big place, and this is just one dealer, so maybe there are more in France than I thought. As I say, I drove all the way down to Barcelona in the summer and didn't see a single one - loads of XM's though, I think the Toulouse area must be XM heaven! Nice weather, it's nice to think that all these old faithfuls find a nice sunny place to loll away the rest of time.... what am I saying..!
There are loads of C6 ads on the Classic FM web site. I see one on about 50% of pages I go to on there. It has lots of very small C6's rotating round on the spot.
Having said that I have just gone on there and can't get it to come up - perhaps their add slot has finished now.
Having said that I have just gone on there and can't get it to come up - perhaps their add slot has finished now.
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