S1: Aircon Refrigerant R12, System resurrection possible?

Hi
I own a S1 car of 1990. My aircon has always been dead and I suppose all the gas has leaked out. I thought of having it regassed but the A/C man says you can't do that as it is a R12 system. I have since verified this as apparently the R134 system was fitted a few years later. As most readers will probably know, the R12 stuff has been demonised for causing environmental problems and is hence not really available anymore.
A reconversion he said would cost £250 ex Vat + £400 for compresser etc etc, so more than the car has cost me.
Does anybody have some suggestions what I could do to resurrect this system?
Any shady dealer selling R12? Drain old fridges? Scrap R134 vehicles (think there is more to that as it needs new seals etc.) Is there any procedure how to do all this? I read a bit on Alan S on the BX forum but that is all R134 related. There seems to be lots of dubious information and marketing around.
I am sure there must be lots of cars with the same problem. Let me hear from you!

Regards


Michael

Hi

No easy way to avoid upgrading your aircon to meet current standards. You are unlikely to find any A/C specialist that is willing to work with secondhand bits recovered from other cars. Sorry but £400 is the price of a new compressor and they will want your old one as exchange. Your man is assuming the rest of the system is ok. In my experience you can expect to need a new aircon rad (£100 plus fit) as well as they corrode to bits with age. The condition of the evaporator box is very important as this is buried against the bulkhead behind the dash (£300 plus costs of removing the entire dash).

Sorry to be a pesimist but I recon you will be better off finding an XM with working A/C to buy.

About 5 years ago I reserected the A/C on my first XM, an 89 SEI, it had already been converted to R134A but it still needed a new compressor and other bits total bill £600. After 4 months one of the pipes split costing £100 and 3 months later the evaporator burst so I gave up on A/C on that car.

Regards

XMexc

i remember speaking to Paul Johnston about a series 1 V6 24v XM that he had for sale a while back for £2500.

He then told me that he had regassed the system on that car using the R12 refrigerent. He also told me at the time he had a source for this gas, so it might be worth giving him a shout, but i bet he'd charge a few pretty pennies for his services.

The old R12 refigerant is so much colder then the new R134a stuff, he told me that the Air Con in the series 1 he gassed was cold enough to burn your hand. Never have i got close to experience this with the newer gas.

Regards
David.

excuse me but your air cn guy is talking rubbish all that has to be done is your system emptyed and then regassed recomend you refer to diffrent regas company
I know this for a fact not long had the toyota regassed and it had R12 toyota just pumped in the new gas £60 no problems and that was a Jap import

Yeah, I thought there was a "slot-in" replacement for R12, that was not R134a.

Or am I talking through my hat (or anywhere else you could say)?

A question arises though, when did R134a become the standard fit, as I need a re-gas on my 2.5? [Thinks: PLEASE!!!]

yeah chadders there is know this will sound stupid to you guys but try a toyota dealer for your regas I got my XM done at my local so it cost £20 more

Thanks so far, it seems this topic is of interest in these (finally) warm days. Well, I think there is really nothing that is a drop in replacement for the R12, I was told the R142 leaks in about 8 months out of the system. How much R12 refigerant would be required? They sell that stuff on ebay US but I don't know if I can get hold of it and if it goes through customs.
Well there is the CampingGaz option, I have not heard of anyone having experience with that but I assume it causes similar problems.

Also it looks like the components are quite troublesome.

Technical: If the AC switch is on Off and I switch it ON, should I hear the clutch engaging? I hear nothing, but sometimes the idle speed drops a little. I see that there is some kind of pressure sensor on the dryer that senses whether there is gas in the system. Theoretically I would assume that the clutch should engage before this switch turns the system off again. On initial startup there should be no pressure in the system to sense anyway. So the clutch should engage at least for a moment to allow this pressure sensing. Maybe there is something wrong with my clutch supply as well.


Meanwhile, if I decide to drop the aircon and get rid of the compressor, can anyone tell me what belt size to buy? (2l petrol).

Regards


Michael

Hi All

I've just bought a 1994 M Reg 3.0 V6 Auto for spares. Its still a runner, but I want it for the gearbox. The interior has been stripped out, as well as dash parts, but its still a runner. I'm after the gearbox as mine snatches badly into 4th.

I phoned an Air con engineer locally today, he seemed to think he could repair / regass my S1 1992 V6 sei, but he took the reg to get details to see what he needs.

If his price is too high, then while I have engine and boxes out of both cars, I'll swap over the 1994 Air con stuff over to my 1992 V6, there being r134a compilent.

I beleve there is a "Drop in" replace ment for r12 gas, I was going to get my S1 1990 H reg V6 done for about £120, but sold the car instead.

I've also bought s 2.0 Turbo 8v XM which apparently goes like the wind and like nothing else driven!! I'm looking forward to using it while I do my V6 up.

Shall keep updates RE: Air con on my 1992 V6

Regards
citroenxm

Try www.car-air-conditioning-supplies.co.uk , they have R12 replacement and everything you could possibly need!

Cassmo

That looks highly promising! I think I will give that a try!

Thanks


Michael

Hi All

Looks VERY promising. Had a look around the www.car-air-conditioning-supplies.co.uk site, and they have a R12 System repair/regas service kit for £79 including delivery. Must be worth a shot at that price!

All I need to do is find the Service points on my V6. On later V6's, 1994 onwards the refill valves are right by the Compressor, but they aint on my R12 1993 system. Any one have idea were they are, or what I may need to have to do for a service??

Regards
citroenxm

I have ordered their "Freeze12 Kit" as it contains some oil as well. Apparently very successful in the USA. Will let you know about experiences here. So keep watching this threat!
That refrigerant apparently is a "blend" of whatever we will never know.

A R12 replacement is called ISCEON 49 and is apparently fully drop in replaceable.

It appears that the R12 system is laid out for lower pressure so it doesn't surprise me to hear that conversions suffer from blown up pipes.

Michael

Michael P

Any luck with the R12 regas?? Service?? I'm quite eager to get mine done.

Regards
citroenxm

Will post experiences shortly! Stay tuned!

Michael