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> 2.5 Td Steering Play
Bigmixer
Posted: November 26, 2005 10:52 am


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My 2.5 TD Estate's steering has developed some worrying play in the straight ahead position. ('96, 90k, new track rod ends). As far as I can see the play is inside the rack itself ie the steering shaft and rubber coupling are turning going into the rack but the steering arms are not moving. Any advice on changing the rack is welcome along with any suggestions as to why at such low mileage? my last XM had 225K and pin sharp steering! Thanks in advance for your comments,
Bigmixer
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Masterclock
Posted: November 27, 2005 12:41 am


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A 'very' small amount of lost motion is normal. The shaft entering the rack is not directly connected to the pinion inside. There is a tiny amount of free play, buffered with two strong springs that allows the hydrulic valve to detect shaft movment and apply pressure to the ram.

Another scource of play, usually accompanied by a dull rumbling noise on rough roads is the rack damper. The pinion end of the rack is not supported in a bush. Instead it is pressed in to contact with the pinion by a plastic yolk or damper. The yolk is spring loaded aginst the rack and has a backing nut to only allow a very tiny amount of play to accomodate differences in the machining between teeth of the rack. If the yolk wears it allows the rack to move away from the pinion generating lost motion. The nut can be adjusted to remove the play. It is easier than replacing the rack, but is not for the faint hearted. First of all you need to make a tool. The adjuster has a female hex socket of 19mm AF. You need to get a 19mm AF nut and bolt, screw them together and hammer the threads over to lock them. The tool then allows you to use a 19mm socket on the end of a ratchet, with the tool in the end to get at the adjuster. The adjuster is on the opposite side of the pinion housing to the pinion shaft. To get at it you have to jack up the car high enough to get right under the car to the back of the subframe, a four post lift would be ideal here. The adjuster is hiden by the Hydractive suspension roll bar sensor. This has to be unbolted from the subframe and moved aside to get at the adjuster. The adjustment is made by screwing in the nut until the rack is gripped and felt to go tight by somone rocking the wheel as the nut is adjusted. Once the tight point is found, the nut is turned back by 1/3 of a turn or 120 degrees. Finaly, there is a small groove either side of the adjuster. The adjuster has a thin edge that has to be peened into the groove to lock it. Replace the rollbar sensor and road test car.

The third possibility are the track rods. The trackrods are coupled to the rack by an internal ball joint, within the gaitors, not the outer joint that connects to the strut. These can wear if the gaitor has been damaged and water gets into the rack. Again, these can be changed without replacing the rack if damaged.


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'98 'R' XM 2.9 V6 Exclusive Saloon RP 7777 Silver
'50 Ivatt Class 2, 2-6-0 www.br46464.co.uk
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Bigmixer
Posted: November 27, 2005 11:46 am


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Masterclock,
an in-depth answer! thanks. I measured the free play at about 40mm at the wheel rim. This is more like my Rover P6 than the Xm.
Going through your answer in reverse I had someone wiggle the sreering wheel and both wheels seemed to be equally affected, ie to start moving at the same point. This would lead me to rule out the joints on the ends of the rack bar itself - reasoning that if it were one joint the other wheel would be moving and the chances of both joints going at once should be slim.
I'm not aware of any rumbling on rough roads, the thing I notice when in most other cars is the amount of road noise. The low (90k) mileage would lead me away from the rack damper, tho not to rule it out totally.
That leaves the pinion itself, with the possibility?, of one of the springs weak or having lost it's temper (as I am close to doing!). As the fault came into the car quite quickly, over no more than about 5-10k miles I tend to suspect failure rather than wear and a spring tired or weak would sound about right.
When I get time I think I will take the track rod ends off and check for play in the rack joints, just in case, and if they prove to be OK then it looks lke a replacement valve body/pinion.
I read, after I had posted, Peter Sturgess' account of replacing his LH gaiter and rack removal sounds tricky but not impossible
Bigmixer
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Masterclock
Posted: November 28, 2005 12:41 am


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Bigmixer,

The play due to the input shaft/ pinion movement is small. It only amounts to about 5mm movement at the wheel rim, and then its a springy vague movment. The flexible coupling can add to this movment as well, but again springy feel. If the springs had broken or lost temper I would suspect that you would notice strange behavior in the power assistance. i.e. unequal effort between turning left or right. I would leave changing the pinion to the very last as I belive it is a very awkward operation with the rack in the car.

As you say, it would be unlikely to be both inner ball joints if both wheels are equaly effected.

It leaves me to suspect that it is the damper adjustment. Its wear all depends on the type of driving style and driving conditions that the car has been used in. Town driving will wear the damper much faster than straight motorway driving. Turning the wheel with the car stationary also causes very large stresses in the rack, so shopping trips tend to wear it much faster as well.

My 2L, two previous owners, failed its MOT for excessive rack wear at 60,000. I was told that the car needed a new rack at a cost of £250 fitted. I took he car away, sceptical that the tester was trying to make some business, and checked the damper adjustment. I found that the adjuster nut screwed in about a turn and a half before nipping up the rack. After backing it off one flat of the hexagon on the tool I made I took the car for a test run and was surprised at the difference it had made. The wear had built up gradualy over time and it wasn't untill it was suddenly removed that I realised how bad it had been.

The tester demonstrated the wear to me by turning the wheels to full left lock, so that the rack was fully extended on the driverside. He then grabbed the road wheel while I was underneath and rocked it left and righ very hard. The play between the pinion and the damper could be seen by the fact that the end of the rack was deflecting backwards and forwards, between about 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock looking end on to the rack. The movment was magnified by the overhang from the pinion caused by the rack being on full lock. You could also probably check it by slipping off the gaitor on the drivers side and putting an adjustable spanner on the rack. If it is possible to rotate the rack in its housing then the adjuster needs tweeking, however it would have probably have been just as quick to try the adjuster itself before going to the trouble of removing the gaitor and having to re-clip it back on.

I also note with interest, in the CD ROM version of the mark 2 XM manual supplied by Noz, that under steering there is an additional proceedure added in 1997 on how to replace and adjust a worn damper. To go to the trouble of issueing a new amendment to dealers, Citroen must have had a fair bit of feedback from them requesting the infomation. Could it be that they are a known weak point?


Ian


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'98 'R' XM 2.9 V6 Exclusive Saloon RP 7777 Silver
'50 Ivatt Class 2, 2-6-0 www.br46464.co.uk
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Bigmixer
Posted: November 28, 2005 08:33 am


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Ian,
the car has indeed been used, especially in the last few years, for short and town journeys only. I know what you mean about wear building up un-noticed, and only being noticed once it has gone. I think its the rack adjuster for a first stop anyway and take it from there. As a matter of interest the car passed the NI MOT four weeks ago!! and it is reckoned to be tighter than the mainland one. I'm working for the next few days but when I'm off I'll make up a tool and try adjustment.
Thanks again,
Ivan
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Masterclock
Posted: November 29, 2005 12:28 am


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A very useful referance for MOT's is here,


http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm

I have a very deep distrust of garages, that they are out to make a quick buck. Its always worth knowing what they can and can't do you for. In fact, if you ever question an mot tester he is obliged to show you in the manual the section regarding the failiure and point out on the car the actual fault. The manual is open to interperatation and if you look at the section on steering play here,

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_220.htm

The range of play can be quite wide.

Drop a post here and let me know how you get on


Ian



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'98 'R' XM 2.9 V6 Exclusive Saloon RP 7777 Silver
'50 Ivatt Class 2, 2-6-0 www.br46464.co.uk
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Guest
Posted: November 29, 2005 04:20 pm


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Ian,
I live in N. Ireland where our MOT is done by a Gov. testing station so the problems you mention are not so acute. I have made a tool and will when I finish work next week have a go at replacing the damper - cost? £2!! I read the section in manual you refered to and it's interesting to note it describes the procedure for LHD. I'll post again in about or ten days when I hope to have something poitive to report.
Ivan
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Bigmixer
Posted: December 07, 2005 07:16 pm


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I adjusted the damper on the rack today, I did not fit the new plunger as the replacement was plastic and the original was metal. I did however replace the retaining bolt as it had a washer on both the faces for the spring and the plunger rather than the original which only had a washer for the spring. Road testing revealed a much sharper steering car, and checking at a standstill shows negligable free play. The advice and information given by "Masterclock" is much appreciated.
Bigmixer
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wirdy
Posted: May 09, 2007 02:34 pm


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I too have just carried out this procedure to adjust the rack damper - and what a difference it has made!

I now know where my front end rattle has been coming from! (this is after replacing Anti -roll bar links, lower ball joints and track rod ends!) never mind, at least I know they're good for many years to come.

If he's still around, thanks to 'Masterclock' for the tutorial. smile.gif

P.S- A wheelbolt cut in half along the drive shank with an angle grinder makes a suitable tool for slotting into the 19mm hex recess to do up the damper screw; then a ring spanner onto it.

This post has been edited by wirdy on May 09, 2007 02:37 pm


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'99 'V' XM 2.0 CT VSX Auto Estate RP 8360 Green.
'97 'R' XM 2.0 CT VSX Auto Saloon RP 7480 Blue.
'96 'P' XM 2.0 16v Man Saloon RP 7176 Magenta.

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Peter.N.
Posted: May 09, 2007 04:41 pm


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Another source of free play can be the universal joint at the bottom of the steering column.

Peter.N.


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Used to have:

'96 'N' 2.1 td VSX manual estate White RP6695.
'01 'Y' 406 GXL Hdi 110 manual estate silver
'01 C5 estate 2.0. Hdi 110hp manual
Located in Charmouth, Dorset. U.K.

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wirdy
Posted: May 10, 2007 10:43 am


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Yeah, thanks Peter. Could be.

Driving the car today has revealed evidence of a continued rattle from the front end that is felt through the steering column,although the steering damper adjustment did improve a great deal. I think I have a number of wear-related problems that are being gradually sorted one-by -one.

Wirdy's search for his mystery rattle................

........next week.............wiil it be anti roll bar bushes or steering rack tie rods replaced....the hunt continues.............. tongue.gif

At this rate the whole front suspension will be new by the time I've finished......and then the gearbox will probably go bang.


--------------------
'99 'V' XM 2.0 CT VSX Auto Estate RP 8360 Green.
'97 'R' XM 2.0 CT VSX Auto Saloon RP 7480 Blue.
'96 'P' XM 2.0 16v Man Saloon RP 7176 Magenta.

Fife, Scotland.
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miguels
Posted: September 14, 2008 01:25 pm


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Dear friends.
First of all thanks to everybody with these excelent ideas.
I´m from Portugal and I´ve a 2.5 TD Exclusive. At the moment i´ve a play in the straight ahead position of the steering wheel. It´s a second hand car but i always take care and try to avoid turning the wheel with the car stationary. Lower ball joints and track rod ends seems OK when visually Inspected but, Driving in bad condition roads it seems that all the front is loose. I´m thinking going trough this procedure for damper adjustment, but reading Masterclock post, doesn´t seems to be clear to me (maybe due to my english interpretation). Someone has a couple of pictures explanation of this procedure?

Best regards to everybody and tks to Masterclock for all the help is trying to provide.

Miguel S.
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Peter.N.
Posted: September 14, 2008 01:56 pm


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Sounds as though it could be the universal joint at the bottom of the steering column again. I have only had trouble with them at fairly high mileages.


--------------------
Used to have:

'96 'N' 2.1 td VSX manual estate White RP6695.
'01 'Y' 406 GXL Hdi 110 manual estate silver
'01 C5 estate 2.0. Hdi 110hp manual
Located in Charmouth, Dorset. U.K.

Blower transistors MJ 11015
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xmexclusive
Posted: September 14, 2008 04:05 pm


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Hi All

Where does the DIRASS/DRAVI differences between RHD/LHD fit in with this posting? I suspect that Miguel's car will be LHD while most of the original post was about RHD cars.

John


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