Ignition Switch And Engine Will Not Switch Off

Can anyone help with this problem.
S2 2.1td
The ignition switch no longer turns electrics and engine off. In fact the only way to stop the engine is to stall it.
Even pulling the ground lead off the battery doesn't turn it off!
Tried replacing the ignition switch with no effect.
I think it's possibly a stuck relay but have pulled every relay I can find to no effect either, all the ones on the fuse box and in the glove box area and in the engine bay as well.
Help

It will in all probability be the stop solonoid in the pump thats sticking. Unless your car has a keypad immobiliser its quite a straight forward job to replace it.

Thanks Peter
I thought that originally but there is something more serious going on here with the electrics.
The ignition switch is not turning off most things.
Most of the warning lights stay on
If the switch is turned off the cooling fans come on and viceversa.
I think the engine not stopping is related to this and I think it
might be a stuck relay but I don't know if there is a main igntion
switch relay and I've tried disconnecting evey relay I can find.
Cheers
Mike

Hi Mike,

What type of inection pump does your 2.1TD have? For the Lucas EPIC pump your failure to stop symptoms could be due to the stop solenoid failing to shut off properly. The rubber seal at the end of the solenoid piston wears or ages and fails to seat properly when the solenoid is de-energised. The red bit in the attached picture is the seal.

There was a similar forum post on this problem not too long ago IIRC.

Ken

Thanks Ken
Its not just the engine that remains on, most of the other electrics stay on as well. I reckon the stop solenoid is remaining powered on.
It doesn't appear to be the ignition switch as I swapped that for another so I'm a bit stumped . I think its a stuck relay but I've puled all the one s I can find with no effect.
Cheers
Mike

Oh and it is a Lucas Epic pump!

Mike

The EPIC ECU gets its battery power via a double relay (which I have never really looked for on my 2.1TD, so can't help you locate it) and the inertia switch (rubber button near the offside strut top). If you pull the plug off the inertia switch (with the engine running) and the engine stops this would possibly rule out a faulty pump stop solenoid problem.

Ken

Hi Mike

Oh dear, in that case it probably will have a keypad. It sounds as though you have a unwanted link between the switched and non switched side of the ignition. I had this problem on mine, the battery light would come on, and the radio and interior light, I tried disconnecting everything that had both circuits to no avail, then one day it suddenly stopped doing it and has been OK ever since - not that it helps you of course

I think mine had got damp as it was standing for some time before I bought it, whether that has a bearing on it or not, I don't know. The only thing you can do is trace the circuit through to the things that are misbehaving then try removing fuses until the power goes off, that should find any unscheduled links.

Hi Peter
Yes that's exactly what I think, and yes the car has been sitting for a while.
Ebay purchase I picked up on Friday.
I've now at least found a way of turning the engine off without stalling it.
There's a plastic unit just to the front right of the engine (as you look at it) which you can push in a lock stop and turn and it manually stops the fuel supply.
Still can't find the problem. Looking for relay 836 at the moment!
Mike

Was this the car from London where the seller said the car had stopped shutting off a few days before the end of auction.?
It possibly is the fuel shut-off solenoid so either see how it goes or try some injector cleaner to see if that free's it off, if not it's time to remove it and replace.

What's the rest of the car like.?

Hi mike try disconecting the alternator start the car if it stops ok check the main power relay it could be latching in and not releasing on switch off and by isolating the alternator it should not energise this relay i think the relay you require is in the front cover of the ecu box behind the o/s headlamp

good luck
Mick

Is this the "Bitron" relay?

it could be i call it the main engine relay it is a fair sized box that links the fuel pump imobiliser and ign depending on rp no my books list it as no 807 or 1304
from memory if you take the front plastic cover off the ecu box it resides there

Mick

Attached is a copy of the 2.1TD Lucas EPIC wiring diagram from the 'Revue Technique' XM manual for what its worth.

Item 807, as Mick says, is the double relay and 620 is the inertia switch. My 2.1TD double relay is nowhere to be found in the vicinity of the plastic ECU box. Citroen must have hidden it in a more weather proof but obscure location on my car.

For Mike's car to keep on running after turning off the ignition it suggests that the ignition switch (300) is failing to turn off the power to the right hand coil of the double relay.

Ken

PS Diagram quality is best if you save the file first to your desktop and open from there.

This post has been edited by kenhall1202 on March 01, 2009 09:55 pm

Many thanks all, and thanks for the diagrams Ken.

Peter please ignore my bollocks about the plastic bit. Its the fly by wire device and I nearly blew the engine up when i tried to remove the top the second time and it stuck for a second. Think I got away with it.

Dieselman, Yes its the one from London, Had to drive it back to Edinburgh with malfunctioning clutch, turned out the rubber bit on the gearbox end wasn't behind the clutch arm and there was a bit of rubber boot stuck in the self adjuster mechanism so that the pedal was about on the floor before it disengaged. Sorted it in a service area, and blew up the tyres, one of which had 10psi, also badly out of balance.
There's a crack in the windscreen, the strut tops are on their way out, the front bumper has a hole in it, one side light and a back light are cracked, oil was barely touching the dipstick, the sunroof motor is not making proper conact with the cables, and it is pretty bogging in and out.
On the plus side it has a new matrix, the aforementioned clutch cable is new, the tyres are good, the spheres appear to be ok apart from the antisink which is probably flat, it steers straight, it goes well, doesn't smoke much and superb mpg.
Luck of the draw I suppose

Broyty, Tried the alternator but no difference.

Lazlo on XM-l thinks it's maybe the immobilizer gone wonky, so I'll have a look into that

Thanks again
Mike


ther is acrack in the windscreen