V6 Starter Problems

Its ok, Ive not got a problem but sorted one out...

Hi guys.. PRV V6 drivers heres an interesting thing I discovered with a V6 I got sitting here.

Its been surrfering with the useual starter solinoid "click" and not turning over... however, with a good battery on, and jump leads to another car for that bit of extra "boost" I could get it to turn over... anyway, the car is currently sitting in the field waiting for me to finish dismantleing her, so I needed to get her going, this time any attempts as abve would not get the starter going! So, bumper off, front off, rads off and get the starter off and place a re con starter on... after finally getting the lower bolt out without removing completely the Reg or flow divider, swapped the starters accross ONLY to find that it still just clicked...!! WHAT IS GOING ON!!!

I thought for a moment siezed unit after standing, so on that note got a spanner and just nudged the engine on the altinator bolt when suddenly clunk in the starter! So I tried it again and got a "No engery" turn from the starter... so last resort I put the original starter on - nudged the engine again with the altinator - tried the key and hey presto - she spun over.. so after a code entry - she burst into life - then ran out of fuel. Tried the starter about 10 times and everytime started!

So all in all, after swapping a load of starters it seemed to be a jammed solinoid, but on both starters! I also noticed when the engine fired and was running there was a bit of starter run on...

Another chapter in the "Poor located starter on PRV's" syndrome

Thanks for reading, but Id just thought Id share the experiance.

Regards
Paul

its the ignition switch, known xm and xantia fault, the starter position always naffs up, over time the current of driving the starter solonoid and back emf from it destroy the contacts in it

fitting a helper relay helps

This post has been edited by lez on December 20, 2008 11:55 pm

Ah thats worth knowing for future reference..

Would putting another ignition in the car help it then...

Paul..

By the way, I was also trying by putting a jump wire from the solinoid pin DIRECTLY to the positive, to bypass the ignition switch and it was the same... once freed up, its operated fine.. Its not worth messing anyway, its a spares car..

The magnets get fouled inside the main motor casing due to break up from excessive heat.
Sometimes a sharp tap on the motor body may help stir some life in it but possibly even
exacerbate matters!!

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on December 21, 2008 12:12 am

huh huuhhhh I really tried that before dooing what I did cause I know how bad it is to get that bloody third LOWEST bolt out the starter without taking the regulator or flow divider off!! Smacking it didn't work....

Paul

Hi Paul

If you have a spare late Mk1 type ignition switch then leave the existing one in place on the steering column and just unplug the 3 plugs and plug the spare switch in. You will need to use a key in both switches if you need to release the steering lock. Saves unthreading the ignition switch wires which is a real pain.

John

With a car in a similar situation at present (ie, recently replaced starter died) I may just try this engine turning trick tomorrow night when I get home from work.

Here's hoping

Um.... Ignition switch ?? Your joking, it powers it ?? No wonder UFO is having problems ... Hello Mr Relay .... Where shall we fit you ... immediately ... before the ignition switch burns out !

What is it with Citroen not using bloody relays when the should ?

seeya,
Shane L.

my ignition switch failed in the taxi last march, not on start but on 'run', one day it just went dead in the middle of the road in the town centre....

i got it going and went home, ripped it out, next morning went to car shop and bought 3 switches, the aircraft looking type ones, sldered the old switch wires to them and ran like that for a few days until i could find a spare.

had to get a xantia one, if you do, the wiring on the plugs is different, you need to swap a couple of the wires around, just pop the plastic plugs open and squeeze back together etc

FFS! dont encourage them to fit more, the ones they did fit are are in stupid places and open to water!

you can bet if they had fitted a relay before the solonoid it would be inside the right hand wing next to the always rotten wing support bracket.......

OK, well good and bad news.

First the good news. A 24mm socket onto the alternator pulley nut turns the engine - surprise! Thanks for that.

Now the bad news...

While turning the alternator, I heard a faint click from the direction of the starter.

I grabbed a charged battery and connected it up with jumper leads. Tentatively tried the starter and ......... nothing, except clunk.

SOOOOO....

Where does this leave me?

It could be the solenoid - would I be able to source just a replacement solenoid?

If I want to get more power to the starter, where does the circuitry come to that I may be able to tap another relay in to provide more power?

Your comments welcome.

This post has been edited by UFO on December 22, 2008 11:47 am

No where... The battery POSITIVE terminal is connected DIRECTLY to the starter.. it is earthed through the engine... The only way is to get a pair of jump leads, get another car, connect the leads start the donar car so you have 14volts going into the battery and so to the starter then when trying it should drop to twelve rather then 8 to 10 volts...

But, sounds to me it could very well be the starter on yours...

EDIT: The starter solinoid is built in, you could try a Shane and remove the starter and strip it down! Bad News though, removing them IS a nightmare!!


Rgds
Paul

This post has been edited by citroenxm on December 22, 2008 01:37 pm

Paul

Wired as you suggest the starter would be energised all the time. That cannot be right. If the car battery is low then jump starting will fail on an XM unless you have very short and heavy crossection jump leads as the duff battery draws as many amps as it can to charge itself short changing the starter motor. As I recall the first time you started the V6 with the duff starter we did not dislodge the starter just hit it with about 150 Amps from a mains boost charger from the junk pile that you showed me how to use and the car was up and running and would then start off the battery. Left me both pleased that it was going and pi**ed that I had tried over the previous fortnight and failed to get it to run. I suspect that the heavy cable crimps and connections on an XM starter circuit become oxidised over time and go high resistance so the starter slowly progressively sees less volts than at the battery until there is not enough to fire the engine. Then we recharge the battery, remake some of the connections, in trying to jump start hit the rest of the connections and crimps with enough amps to burn off the oxidisation. This then leaves the oxidisation cycle to start again and us happy that the one thing we have done/changed/remade was the sole cause of the problems. If we have shelled out real money for a new starter or battery we are doubly convinced that was the cause.

John

Well Yes John it will be! The Positive terminal goes DIRECTLY from the Battery to the starter solinoid then to the altinator... then the small wire from the ingition switch evergises the solinoid and activates the motor... in a round about way....

Paul

I've come in late here so I'm probably sticking my oar in where it's not wanted. The solenoid does two jobs. The armature drags the drive pinion into engagement with the flywheel then at the end of its movement it pulls a heavy duty copper contact strip into contact with two hefty terminals, one is the permanent supply from the battery, the other is connected to the starter motor windings. If the solenoid is operating - the clunk suggests it is - then the problem may be burnt contacts. They are within the solenoid case so a strip down may be inevitable.

Derek