V6 Starter Problems

[citroenxm]

Hi Derek... you've used the words I couldn't think of.. thats its operation, but what its actually dooing is sticking onto the fly wheel... the stater has no flat areas, and doesn't turn slowly...

Your input is welcomed, because I couldn't think of the proper words and explain the operation..

It will be interesting when I finally get this unit out to split the box from the engine and see if theres actually anything wrong with the ring gear etc etc...


Rgds
paul

[UFO]

Hurry up Paul. My car is starting again. I will detail the story with links to some pics later tonight. [B]

[UFO]

Here is the link with pictures,

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showpost....12&postcount=40

Or you can just read the text

OK, the story goes....

I was going to wait until tomorrow to do this job, but mid afternoon I had nothing better to do so got stuck in. Why put off until tomorrow....

Pics are below with suitable titles and in order of the job happening for removal but no replacement pics.

1. I removed the battery completely - no instant welding lesson today!
2. As usual I removed the exhaust pipe section - easy. Two studs (hex largish 5.0?) at front, two nuts at rear (16mm)
3. Removed the starter heat shield - one nut two bolts - 10mm
4. Disconnected battery and switch feeds from starter - 8mm and 13mm nuts
5. Looked at how the pressure reg mount affects everything. Hmmm, remove a few pipe retaining brackets - all 10mm and then the two 11mm bolts holding the bracket in place and the bracket is movable. I did not try to take it out completely as there was no point. It was now not blocking access to the lower stud. I could get the 3/8 extension and hex in there - about a 4 I think?
6. I had started loosening the regulator body from the side of the gearbox, but realised this delivered no advantage.
7. Middle stud was easy as it is from the starter side
8. Now the top stud. Couldn't access it from beneath so after a great deal of farn-arckling and swearing, I determined that as the distributor cap comes off with three 8mm bolts I would give myself some playroom from the top down. This allowed enough access to get a short wobble bar and hex in and undo the stud. (quick note - when replacing I found that my 1/4 ratchet, 3/8 -1/4 adaptor and hex and a 10cm extension bar were just right)


So, I then had a dud starter motor in my hands from underneath the car.

I proceeded to test the removed starter. I connected a battery to the starter with -ve to the body, +ve to the main power feed and I had a third wire I clipped to the solenoid connection and then tapped the top of the +ve on the battery. The solenoid clicked, the gear flicked forward but nothing. I compared this with the previous dud starter I still had, and got the same result. So, it seems the interior of the starter is jammed.

I then grabbed a spare CX starter I had on the shelf (how tragic!) and did the same thing. Nice gear spinning action and noises resulted. So at least I had the test process correct.

Then I remembered that I had a BX starter from the car we wrecked last year. I wonder....

Well, the XM starter looked almost identical. Down to the type D6RA - only the numbers on the end were different. XM is 72 and BX is.... I forget - maybe 66?

I tried to fit it straight up but it was not quite right and the stud thread sizes were larger for the BX. On closer examination the housing of the gearing end was different too - longer for the BX.

So then I pondered whether I should make one out of two. I had the original dud and a BX starter that won't be required.

I pulled the old XM starter apart to examine why it was stuffed. You can see below that the magnets inside the motor have come adrift as they are only ever glued in. Would it have been that difficult to put a rivet in? So you end up that the magnets mash together and jam everything up.

The three bolts holding the motor to the housing were easy to get undone and the couple of tiny locating rivets no challenge. I then attached the motor from the BX starter to the XM housing and it all fell in place. Remember to swap the locating dowel/sleeve from the removed starter into the one being put in

As they say in the Haynes BOFT, replacement is the reversal of removal.

When replacing the starter, I found it easier this time to locate the lower bolt as a guide for the thing mounting plate cover thing, then put the starter in place using the locating dowel to help lock the cover plate in place.

Once I had the starter connected with two bolts, I tested its action. Briefly putting a battery back in and cranking over on the key WITHOUT putting the security code in, confirmed that this starter was good (and it sounded good!)

It was not that difficult to put everything back in place. Just to be sure, before I put the exhaust section back I briefly started the car. It DID sound good for a couple of seconds!

Soon enough the car was back together, started and on its own four tyres for the first time in a couple of weeks.

All up, including building a starter, the job took about 5 hours with clean up and putting cars back in the garage. Now that I know the process, I reckon I could knock it over in about 3 hours by myself - less with some assistance. Mind you, I have no hoist and everything is done clambering over the top or laying on a creeper trolley underneath!

A quick tip too - don't let your 1/4inch extension bar and a socket drop from above your head onto your left ear. IT BLOODY HURTS!

I think I will now order a new starter from UK or France ready for a replacement sometime in the probably not too distant future. The prices quoted here for a new Valeo starter are horrendous!

[citroenxm]

UFO!
Ive said somewere else that the 4 cylinder 8v starters will fit AS long as you change the part that goes into the gearbox..

I put a Xantia 1600 8v starter on my first V6 by changing the nose pice that bolts to the gearbox - worked perfect then on..

WELL DONE anyhow!

Regards
Paul