Rear Windows Only One Direction

[Bantam]

When i got my car there were no window motors in the rear doors...Glass held up with sticks

Anyhow i now have the motors and switch's the thing is when fitted to the doors the glass only goes down and wont come back up ? This happens on both rear doors

if i change the polarity to the motors the wndows go up perfectly...Is it me ?

Any ideas lads ?

[noz]

Bantam,

Whe you say they don't come back up do you mean that there is no noise? No motor operation? Its not just that the motor is struggling, there's just no life out of the motor at all? What happens if you only lower the windows slightly and then try to go back up again? Presumably when the window is on the way down it is being motored down rather than just falling by gravity?

What I'm driving at, is it a mechanical or electrical problem?

If the windows were held up with sticks how much of the mechanism was missing? Were the guide rails still intact? Presumably the cables were missing if the motors were missing since the cables are wrapped around the motor. Depending on how much was missing have you replaced all the missing parts? Did you assemble the cables and the motor yourself or did you buy a complete assembly?

If you narrow down the problem we can probably work out the cure.

Cheers

noz

[Peter.N.]

Could be a faulty switch in the centre console, or maybe even both door switches.

Peter

[dean]

Yes, providing all is well mechanicaly then my bet is switches, its rather common to have them fail, sometimes two at a time which is confusing, try swapping the switch with a known good one before looking further.

D

[Bantam]

Well guys the windows go down all the way but dont come back up...I made up a lead to reverse the polarity and the when done the windows come back up using the same switchs but then dont come down

So i think the switchs are fine as i have four now all doing the same thing....The replacement motors are in very good condition and i have recently oil'd the cables and the running of the units are smooth.

Any idea's ?

Thanks

This post has been edited by Bantam on May 27, 2010 09:08 am

[xmexclusive]

Hi Bantam

Still sounds like the switches.
Assuming that your front passenger window works then try one of the rear switches in the front window. Try the front switch on a rear window. That way you should be able to eliminate or prove faulty the rear switches.
It cannot be the winders as you have eliminated them with your swap polarity wiring.
It is the switches that are supposed to select direction simply by swapping polarity.

John

[Peter.N.]

I would agree with John, the switches do exactly that - reverse the polarity, but they obviously are not. Just another thing to check, the body to door multiplugs.

Peter

[noz]

Hi Bantam,

Inside the black casing of the window switch there are actually two electrical switches.

When the rocker is in the mid position then the two electrical switches connect the respective ends of the winder motor winding to earth. i.e. in the mid position both ends of the motor winding are connected to earth.
When the rocker is pushed, say, up, then one of the switches is activated and the other stays in the default (earth) position. The switch which is activated connects its respective end of the winding to the live. The winder motor now turns in the direction dictated by the polarity of the applied voltage. When the rocker is released and returns to the mid position then both ends of the motor winding are once again connected to earth.
When the rocker switch is then pushed to the down position the reverse happens. The up switch is now in the default or earthed position and the down switch now connects its respective winding end to the live. Because the polarity of the voltage across the motor winding is now reversed then the motor will turn the opposite way.

That is a very long winded way of saying one of the electrical switches inside the rocker switch is faulty. My experience is that the contact pads eventually wear out due to the arcing caused every time the switch is released/disconnected. In some cases they are repairable but the components inside the switch are quite small and a bit fiddly. It can be done though. I've done it myself.

Hope that clears that one up. Any questions, just ask.

Cheers

noz

This post has been edited by noz on May 27, 2010 09:35 pm

[eXeM]

One rear window went down, then wouldn’t come up – yesterday I seemed to have fixed one window, but next day it did the same again. The other rear window didn’t work at all.

Anyway, I decided to have a good look at this problem - here are my findings. The good news is the fixes cost me nothing!

1. DOOR SWITCH CONNECTOR

The power supply connector has 5 terminals

1 - Supply to window
2 - Power (12V)
3 – Earth
4 - Power (12V)
5 -Supply to Window

Test these with multimeter. As an alternative, just apply 12V+ and – to
pins 1 and 5 having removed switch. Switch polarity to go in other direction- if
window works, then motor and mechanism ok.

2. DOOR SWITCH

This is a rocker, it connects pins 1 & 2 or 4 & 5 depending on which side of the rocker is pressed and applies the power to the motor with return being pin 3

You can take these apart and clean them up.

1. Take a thin-bladed screwdriver insert between the pieces of plastic by
the pivot gently prise rocker upwards – hold with fingers
2. Do the same on the other side. The rocker will now come off
3. Prise out the springy bits of metal at each end
4. Prise out the two pieces of white plastic at either end in a similar way to
the way you got the rocker off.
5. Prise out the green bit in the middle which has the bulb in its underside
6. You should now be able to see the copper strips with contacts at the
bottom (one at each end) - gently remove them and clean them
7. Replace two white plastic bits (same way round they came out!)
8. Reassembly is reverse of disassembly

3. REAR WINDOW RELAY

This is in the centre console, near the cigar lighter. If its not working properly, replace it.

4. CENTRE CONSOLE SWITCHES

These switches are, in typical Citroen fashion, a bit odd-ball and complex in design!

They were the cause of my rear N/S windows not working at all.

They can be fixed!

1) Remove switch.
2) Prise each side apart a little to get rocker off
3) At each side, there is an arm on a pivot which has a spring on it
(careful its delicate)
4) Pull the arm very slightly forward towards the end and you will then be
able to swing it up. The spring will fall out, so be ready to catch it
5) With the arm pulled back on its pivot, you can now see the copper
contact down the side of the switch (probably covered in sh*t) clean
with emery paper
6) Examine the other side of the arm. You will find a roller, it needs
rotating and cleaning with emery paper
7) Replace spring on spike and where it sits on the main body
8) Bring arm back over and it should click into place
9) Do steps 4-8 for other side
10) Put rocker back on switch

5.WINDOW-WINDER MOTOR

This motor is a VERY SIMPLE and quite strong 12V DC Motor. The rear ones
will generally be almost unused unless you have lots of kids! Mine was in
pristine condition after 15 years.

It has only two terminals, one way round the motor (which drives a worm)
goes forward, the other way round, it goes in reverse. It can’t be that simple
can it – YES!

If the window goes down electrically, THEN THE MOTOR IS WORKING
PERFECTLY even if the window won’t go back up and vice versa.

Reasons why window won’t go up

-no power coming to switch
-power not being passed through rocker switch
-child rear window isolator switch on centre console operative
-centre console switches not working
-the cable is jammed / shredded
-there is no cable as its broken
-the glass has jammed

If you remove the whole assembly from the door, you can test the motor itself
by simply applying power one way and then the other from a 12V battery
for a very short time.

Can I remove the motor as I think its the motor (I’m NOT talking about the
wire / gears etc) Yes!

Undo 3 screws, motor can then be pulled out. The white plastic connection on
top can be prised out and then the armature / worm drive and brushes can
be examined and cleaned replaced as required. You can cut down slightly larger
brushes from any electrical motor to fit –easy as its soft material.

Reassembly is a bit fiddly, but essentially you fit the armature into the gold shell,
then fit the white plastic bit which holds the two brushes. You need to hold
the brushes back until the commutator is clear and in place. Then fit the rubber
seal and finally insert the worm drive into the main assembly and screw up.