Binding Brakes/sluggish Pickup, Caliper troubles?Parking Brake technique

[sparkybright]

Hi again people,

More Pink Stripe XM Problems.

Brakes Binding/Squealing/Stalling on takeoff
The car definately feels like the brakes are on slightly even when parking brake is off and you're not touching the foot brake.
The front wheels are quite warm when I've felt them after the car has been on a run. If the brakes are binding, then that could account for the fact that I have to rev the car alot more than I'd expected when moving off, otherwise the car is prone to stalling, or bogging down (or is that the nature of the 2.1TD - nothing below 2k rpm?). It seems fine at higher revs/speeds.

The front brakes also squeal sometimes, especially when turning on slow LH bends/junctions.

If only one caliper is binding, could I get away with changing just the affected caliper, or should I replace both. Granted that I'll need to replace both sets of pads.

Is this going to be a trying job in practice ?

thanks for any ideas/suggestions,

Ade

[noz]

Hi Ade,

This will be the most likely culprit for your binding brakes:

http://club-xm.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers

noz

[bobtee]

Hello sparky,i was just going thro the forum catching up with the messages and saw your query about binding brakes and handbrake operation.
My2.1 saloon seems to hang on the footbrake for a few seconds after releasing the brake foot or handfoot brake or foothandbrake ok thats enough of that.
Any way i realise you may think i am a bit thick but did you try the brakes operation with the appropriate wheel jacked up and someone in the car operatig the foot pedal and also the foothandbrake (im off again) like they do during the m.o.t spin wheel apply brake and so on that way you can soon tell if the brakes are operating and releasing correctly.
Best regards Bob.

[JunKie123]

My car had the front left dragging a year ago and the only way I cured it was a caliper rebuild kit. I've worked in the brake industry for 15 years so felt qualified to rebuild it but didn't find anything obviously wrong with the old seals. It did sort it out though. I've now got the front right dragging. I checked the valve was free, cracked the bleed nipple and released the park brake cable all to no avail. Guess I should have done them both at the same time !!!
I can't see any reason why you shouldn't fit only one new caliper so long as they have the same piston size and you fit new pads.

[noz]

Splashwomble,

I tried for ages to find a caliper repair kit by phoning all the motor factors I know to no avail. No-one had a part number listed for such a beast. I can only assume the 'repair' kit would consist of the 1 or 2 O-rings around the piston (I cant recall now how many there are) and the dust seal. It might have a new piston but I doubt it.

Where did you buy your overhaul kit? I'd be interested in buying a couple since they can't be very expensive (he says hopefully). The outer dust seals on bth my XM's are looking very tired and could be doing with changing. If I dont the ingress of dust and water will only cause me further problems down the line.

Any info on your supplier and part number would be very helpful.

Cheers

noz

[stjxs01]

I replaced my caliper seals with a kit available from my local citroen dealer here in Southampton. It was not very expensive from what I recollect. It's too dark at he moment to have a look, but I'm sure the box is still somewhere in my garage. I'll try and remenber to have a look tomorrow for the part number.

Cheers

Jim

[JunKie123]

Noz,
As I said I've worked in the industry for a long time and now work for the other company who uses power hydraulic brakes (JCB). I bought the kit from Brake Engineering http://www.brake-eng.com/ who are based about half a mile from me in Wrexham. I don't think they did it as a favour but their main business is remanufactured brakes for the trade. They do have a counter but I'm not sure they will mail parts out. If they do market kits most motor factors will know of them. I'll do some enquiring.... As for the price, it was quite expensive (for a few bits of rubber) but it did include a new slide pin, which I didn't use. It did not include a piston but I'm sure they will be available almost certainly in black nitrotech finish not chrome but it would be good enough for me. Give me a few days and I'll find out what they can do.

[noz]

Hi splash,

Thanks for the info. I'll get a quote from Citroen in the meantime as Jim suggests and whaichever turns out to be the cheapest gets the job.

Thanks to all

Cheers

noz

[xmexclusive]

Hi All

Thank you all for this item. I had been wondering why the silver 2.5 was low on miles for a tank of fuel. I was going to blame the injectors, now I have just found that the front brakes are rubbing slightly. I took the wheels off to have a look, something I had not done before on this one (trade purchase, one can assume everything must be perfect!!!). The pads had been put in without peeling the backing and this was all burnt and peeling where it could. In cleaning up the backs of the pads I noticed that all 4 pads had nibs at the centre of the back while the type I now use only have nibs for the piston side. Whilst this should make no difference some years ago I have previously had problems on on of the other 2.5's with binding brakes after fitting new pads with 4 nobs. These I then replaced with a set of Bendix Pads and the binding problems dissapeared without having to do anything else.

On calipers I have just had a 2005/2006 EURO Parts catalogue in the post. They quote from £41.50 for an exchange XM front caliper and from £79.95 for a rear.

Regards

XMexc

[xmexclusive]

Hi All

An update, the Eurocar Parts prices are transposed, still I cannot find a cheaper front caliper and the silver estate failed the MOT today on a binding drivers side front brake so they will have one for me to collect tomorrow morning.

Regards

XMexc

[xmexclusive]

Hi All

An update. The MOT failure was actually for binding drivers side brake and a sticking parking brake on the passenger side. Now having taken the pads out from both sides I find I was wrong about all 4 of the brake pads having nibs on the back. The pads with the nibs had been put on the drivers side and the pair without had been put on the passenger side. Three of the pads had approx 10mm of friction material left with the other one down to 6mm. I had noticed that it did not stop quite as well as the 3.0 but had put this down to the new pads and discs that I put on that vehicle a few months ago. The damage from this problem running for at least 9 months (I have to assume it was not there at the last MOT) is that the two lower hand brake cables are now shot and the caliper that has been doing all the work is now slow to release. To cap it all Eurocar parts have managed to supply a wrong cable for the nearside cable and I found this out by comparision after taking the old one out so I cannot use the car tomorrow to pick up the correct cable and the 3.0 is lent out. Happy Days.

Regards

XMexc

[JunKie123]

Update on caliper repair kits.
Brake Engineering kit part number SK4040357 includes seals and boots and a slide pin but not the big rubber cover for the park lever. It costs about £40 plus VAT. He sold me one for cash on the door for £30 total.
However I've since priced up the genuine article from Citroen, part number 95 651 051 which does include the big boot but not the pin and it's only £18.35 plus VAT.... lesson learned.
When I rebuilt the left brake for dragging I didn't need the pin or the boot so I suspect the genuine kits a significantly better buy.

[noz]

Splashwomble,

Can I ask, was that price per side or was there a pair in the box?

On the subject of slow release there's two main sources of the problem:

1. The operating cable can be stiff inside the outer cable. IF its still serviceable its possible to remove it from the car completely, hang it vertically and find a way to drip feed oil or melted grease into the end in order to get lubricant all the way down to the bottom. Otherwise a new cable. Approx £9 per side from memory.

2. The operating arm for the parking brake is supported between two cast eyelets on the caliper and is kept in place by a circlip at the bottom. If the boot has been leaking or its had no maintenance since the car was new (eminently possible) then the lever arm will be stiff. However its dead easy to fix. Disconnect the cable. Peel back the boot. Clean off all the gunk. Wash with a degreaser of some kind. Lubricate lever pin with grease and work backwards and forwards a couple of hundred times with an adjustable spanner on the end where the cable is anchored. Pack well with grease and replace boot. Hey presto, one very serviceable parking brake.


As I discovered to my cost the proper automatic adjustment of the parking brake can only take place if the lever arm returns to its stop after release. If any stickiness causes it not to return then the self adjustment will not take place and the parking brake will always be slack and innefective (see dent in front apron in the shape of the rockery at the bottom of the drive ! )

Cheers

noz

[xmexclusive]

Hi All

Now have sorted the front calipers on the silver 2.5 TD. Even possess a shinny new MOT cert. After fitting two new lower hand brake cables, new pads and bleeding the front brakes the existing calipers recovered themselves and now work well. I really enjoyed crawling under a car on axle stands in the rain over two days. Sheering a stud that held the handbrake equliser to the side of the exhaust tunnel really made my day. Now I will have to watch the fuel consumption to see if the binding was the cause or if I still need to sort the injectors. I await the grumblling noise from the front wheel bearings due to the overheating. Just to keep me on my toes the MOT man reported corrosion in the rear brake pipes over the rear axle that he thinks may progress to be a problem for next years MOT.
XM's are real sources of joy to us owners.

Regards

XMexc

[xmexclusive]

Hi All

The fuel consumption with the 2.5 TD has returned to normal (250miles mainly local driving from 40 ltrs). It has cost me a fair bit in extra fuel in the last 9 months by not checking the brakes when I first got the car. It only just passed the smoke test at the MOT so I may well still get the injectors cleaned.

Regards

XMexc