Front Suspension Gaiter, Refitting problem

[jackyboy]

A local garage fitted a new wheel bearing for me a few months ago. I know they had to remove the hub and send it to an engineering workshop to remove the old bearing. Anyway it all seemed fine.

This morning I have noticed that the gaiter which goes over the front strut is no longer attached at the top end. The gaiter does not appear damaged but there is no clean collar to fit it back on to. On the collar there are big chunks of rubber which seem to be connected to the top flange thing. Should I cut this away to create a clean collar? It could be that it is some sort of gunge which has been put on at some stage but I don't think so. The car was one owner with 37k when I got it and no work has been done on the front strut since I 've had it

Hope I've explained this properly.

[Andmcit]

NOOOOOOOO!!

You don't want to go cutting chunks off this top collar - it needs all the help it can get anyhow as
forces and corrosion are presently trying to weaken it all so it will detach itself and send the strut
top and sphere through the bonnet as it is, like so:


(OK. it's a Xantia but the design and effect is the same on an Xm...)

The gaiter needs to be fed onto the top rim (the underside of the strut top) FIRST and then clipped
onto the collat 8-10" lower doen the strut. NOW - if there's been unintentional damage done to the
underside of the strut top, I'd have words with the garage that seems to have ipset things here!!

Is there a chance of taking a piccy of the strut top's underside rubberised collar and posting here
using www.photobucket.com etc?

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on November 02, 2008 12:40 pm

[Andmcit]

RUBBER FAILURE:

See the lip on the lower part of the main rubber block
- this is what you clip the gaiter around



CORROSION METAL FAILURE:


Check first that there is a collar and in fact whether the gaiter is split/torn.

Andrew

[jackyboy]

Pictures of the problem Can't see how to get more than 1 picture on here

This post has been edited by jackyboy on November 02, 2008 01:42 pm

[xmexclusive]

Hi Jackyboy

Rubber gaiter fits over the two projecting pieces of rubber. Looks like they displaced this gaiter when they did the hub bearing. I seem to recall that the workshop manual says that for early Mk2's the gaiter is a use once and replace item while the later ones are reusable. Will see if I can find a reference.

John

[jackyboy]

another picture

[jackyboy]

Thanks John

What do I now need to restore back to norma and is it a big job?

[Andmcit]

Has wire (red line) been used to try and hold a torn gaiter?

The collar (in yellow) looks like it's been cut away preventing any chance
of securing the gaiter.

As for the white outlined jagged 'thing' on the left, I'm at a loss. Worst case
scenario is the strut top may require a closer examination on the upside. If
the weather get's into the bare strut you may have problems requiring renewal
of everything...

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on November 02, 2008 02:04 pm

[cmacedo]

Jack

I understand that you need to replace strut ASAP, dont take the chance to have to buy a new hood!

Cheers

Caique

[Andmcit]

I only have reference for Xantia tops as pictures but you really need a new one of
these by the looks of things:



The underside needs to look like this:


Comparison of old and new:


Andrew

[jackyboy]

The bit inside the wite lines is rubber, I assumed as part of the mounting and I don't think that wire has bee used at any stage to hold the gaiter.The area inside the red marking is where there is a clear and clean lip which again I assumed, was where the gaiter should fit over.

I've just seen the pics posted buy Andmcit and the second picture of the underside is what I have, but instead of the collar being clean, mine has all lumps of rubber sort of moulded onto it which stops the gaiter from slipping over it

The area inside the redf line on my picture is rubber and if I remove it I' have a clean collar

This post has been edited by jackyboy on November 02, 2008 03:03 pm

[Andmcit]

From what I can determine from the pictures posted, it may be the case that for whatever
reason the rubber collar has been damaged preventing the gaiter being secured in the normal
fashion and as an alternative repair the garage has attached a secondary rubber from the
wheelarch crown and attached to the existing one as a means of preventing weather ingress.

You can use the car as it appears now after makeing totally sure the main strut top mounting
is sound and has no tears or corrosion but I'd be particularly concerned with the poor gaiter.

To be totally happy and safe knowing that it wasn't all about to fail I'd suggest an alternate
strut top and gaiter would be needed!

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on November 02, 2008 03:34 pm

[xmexclusive]

Hi Jackyboy

I am not at all sure about the extent, if any of the problem yet. I think we may be looking at the results of someone treating the area with a good dose of underseal, then later on the gaiter getting pulled out of the underseal when the hub was removed for the bearing. This is a low mileage, reasonably well maintained car as I remember and rotten strut heads are normally the result of long useage possibly with flat spheres.

I am afraid I think that Andrews stuff about Xantia struts is a "scarlet shark" as Xantia struts are much more prone to rusting failure and fail for a very different reason than XM strut heads. Xantia strut heads rust from the bottom up (where the salt supply is) while XM strut heads rust from the top down taking much longer to reach failure.

I need to go over to the unit to find some loose struts/heads to have a look at before I say any more.

John

This post has been edited by xmexclusive on November 02, 2008 03:58 pm

[Andmcit]

And a red herring too!!

Like everyone else on any forum, folk can only offer help/advice and opinion from their reference
point of experience and I've had too much practice with this duff design on the Xantia and am
perfectly aware that we're discussing strut tops here on an Xm forum!!

Only point I'm making and by referencing Xantia one's that I have got an extensive selection of picture reference for, is the damned things do fail! Sure, the Xantia one's are made of papier mache
compared to the Xm's stiff cardboard but fail they will!! I'm not trying to wind anyone up over Xm
strut top failure and the one pictured that failed on mine was due to rubber failure not corrosion.
This was no doubt caused by a previous owner running the car for too long on a flat sphere or a
significant trauma in the recoil of that strut/suspension leg when driven into/over something in
it's earlier life.

The fact that the Xm which is the subject of this discussion has covered quite a significantly
low mileage bodes well for the rubber but then if allowed to get permanently damp and stand
can still sit and fester with no air draught around the vulnerable areas to keep the moisture
at bay.

What can't be determined is why there is only half the mounting ring collar upon which the bellows
gaiter needs to be attached

Andrew

This post has been edited by Andmcit on November 04, 2008 12:33 am

[xmexclusive]

Hi Andrew

From what I can see in the pictures I am not that sure that there is anything missing yet. On the early Mk2's once the gaiter has been pulled down it creases out of shape and is virtually impossible to get to fit back on. My memory is that it sits on two lands of rubber that project below the strut head. Once the top ring of the gaiter is out of shape it can no longer grip. I think I can see the nearest one of the lands in the photo with the other one hidden by the gaiter. The land I can see appears undamaged. The later type of gaiters, which should be used for all replacements, keep their shape so grip when reused. There is a possibility that after the bearing repair they could not get the gaiter to stay up and smeared the area with rubber glue to stick it back in place. If so what we can now see is the debris from this gluing and Jackyboys first idea to clear it might well be right. I will try to get over to the unit tonight to look at the individual components so I can comment a bit more positively. My personal experience over a good number of cars is that even rusty XM strut heads can be assessed for risk and about three quarters of them treated and saved rather than replaced. I would not do the same with Xantia strut heads and would want to modify the underside of the new one before fitting to give a better chance of a reasonable service life.

All strut heads fail finally by the rubber tearing but what is important is the reason that causes the rubber to tear.
There are 3 separate possibilities here:
1. Axial rubber tearing from flat sphere excess loading.
2. Bottom Metal rusting from the wheel arch.
3. Top Metal rusting from the engine bay.

Both XM and Xantia can suffer from 1 but it is not that common in the UK.
Only Xantias suffer from 2 and it is a rapid process.
Most XM's eventually suffer from 3 but it very slow and can be spotted and treated/repaired if caught early enough.

John

This post has been edited by xmexclusive on November 02, 2008 05:12 pm