Automatic - Howto, need some advice

Since I've never had one, nor any of my friends, and it's a real rarity here in Poland, I hope you can give me some advice(I've heard and read a lot, but everybody seems to have different opinion).

My question is mainly about the trafiic lights - if I stay 10-15 seconds, should I change to N(neutral)? or leave Drive and keep the break pushed, or change to P(I've heard its risky, coz if someone hits the car the gearbox is dead, but also I've heard you should change to P on lights, so as said- everyone says something else and Im confused:().

Also, I leave the car on Neutral and with that hand(leg:)brake on, is that OK? Or should I leave it with P? I used to leave it like that but then this one time the car (dont know how) rolled a few meters(!) and also wont start sometimes on P.

So please give me some advice, I guess you have more experience with that and especially the citroen's.

Sophie,

Normal advice with an automatic gearbox is to sit at traffic lights or junctions with the car in Drive (D) and the car held with the footbrake (Right foot).

When leaving the car parked it is normal to leave the car in P (Park). I would not recommend using P except when leaving the car parked with the engine off.

There has been some discussion here that running the engine with the car in N can damage the box due to pressure build up, I'm no expert in this field however.

John

Sophie,

There has been a MASIVE or Very big discussion about the Auto boxes in these cars. A conclusion that was bought was to leave the car in D, as the gearbox clutches are VERY strong and it wont to any harm, the theroy of changing to N to releve the clutches does cause a pressure build up in another area...

KEEP on top of gearbox fluid changes and make sure its NEVER any worse then very dark red... it should really be light red...

you should have a gearbox dip stick to check the fluid level, just down below the side of the battery try, yellow loop on the end... check its colour if its anything except Red, get it changed as soon as you can...

Try a search for Auto gearbox subjects on this fourm..

Good luck
Rgds
Paul

I regret I have to disagree with my fellow members.

There was a report of one specific version of the ZF autobox suffering failure when stopped in neutral with the engine running, another report said that as soon as the fault was identified the manufacturers modified the design to cure the fault.

My owners manual, page 61, clearly states "Neutral. Recommended position when stationary in a traffic jam. Do not select when the vehicle is in motion." That is what I have always done and I've been driving autos for fifteen years without any failures. I also hold the car with my foot on the parking brake so my stoplights aren't on.

If you leave the car in "Drive", it's not the brake bands and clutches that suffer - they are under no more load than the brakes on a stationary car - but the torque converter pump is still spinning and delivering energised fluid through the stators to the stationary impeller and that energy can only be converted to heat. There is also erosion of the blade surfaces.

The use of "Park" is obvious, it's used when you have finished driving. Why do you think they supply a neutral position?

I would not recommend selecting "Park" when stopped in traffic as you have to go through reverse to get to drive.

Derek

This post has been edited by DerekW on September 30, 2008 11:04 pm

I'd tend to agree with Derek here and I'm sure this is where the two camps in the original
discussion Paul mentions earlier were divided then. Why bother creating neutral if you're
going to leave it in D ALL THE TIME or lock it with the pawl pin in Park when the car is fully
stopped?

Unless of course N is purely a means to roll the car about when the engine is off or when
the car is being towed...

The simple answer I've concluded before, is get a manual gearbox car if you don't want the
heartache of an otherwise perfect Xm with a very dead autobox that only goes backward...

or a lot of spare gearboxes!

Andrew

Two further thoughts prompted by Andrew's posting.

The only difference between "Park" and "Neutral" inside the box is the selection of the locking pawl.

Neutral is not needed to move the car about with the engine off, you can do it in any gear - or at least I think you can, you can certainly move my wife's ZX in "Drive", "Reverse", or anything other than "Park". The XM is too heavy for me to move around with the engine off!

Derek

Im sorry, did I say put the car in P or N, I think I sugested leaving the car in D....

I think your only disagreeing with BigJohn, from what I can work out, not your "Fellow Members"

I never use park when driving, only when... well, when I park..

Rgds
Paul

I stopped using Park because the car wont start after leaving it that way, I have to put Neutral anyways, so I leave it on N with hand(leg)brake:>

Manual gearbox is a past to me, automatic is so useful in the city, and besides all much much more safe, especially on the road, I remember when I got my car I drove too fast thru Germany, and ignored the signs(thats what you normally do in Poland;)) and I would definitely have, dont know how to call it, fallen out of the right-turn if I had manual(I wouldnt be able to change to lower gear, but automatic did in a second and probably saved my life:)
I'm obeying the signs while in DE right now;)

Anyways, I'm gonna ask my mechanic and see what he has to say about it. I see you have as different opinions as Ive heard so far:)

This post has been edited by sophie on October 01, 2008 01:50 pm

Your problem with the starter not engaging - or working when in P is your selector cable from the gearlever to the gearbox is out of adjustment... I had this on one of my cars, and had to get to the top of the gearbox to adjust the cable.. it was fine after.

There is a switch on the gearbox connected to the selector cable that stops the starter from going when your in any gear except P or N, the cable needs adjusting slightly so its lines up so that it knows when your in P exactly!

Rgds
Paul

Ref the non-starting in "Park", you took the words out of my mouth, Paul!

On the original subject,
Quote: " Im sorry, did I say put the car in P or N, I think I sugested leaving the car in D....".

Precisely, that's what I disagree about. As I explained in my post, leaving it in D can cause overheating and wear in the torque converter.

Having given a good reason for not using D, I then went on to consider the other options, N or P and explained why N is preferable. Nowhere did I suggest that you or anyone else had mentioned P or N. Rather the opposite, you both suggested D and that's why I disagree with my fellow members.

Best wishes as always, Paul

Derek

OK, it was me!!

It was me what done it! I mentioned Neutral...

Andrew

Hi all

Im not entirely sure about this one myself but............... i always put it into N when waiting for any length of time, the reason being that an old R***r 827 auto i had would flash the interior lights if you stayed in gear for any longer than 20ish seconds whilst stationary, in the handbook it explained that prolonged periods in gear when stationary could cause overheating of the transmission fluid. Staying in gear whilst stationary will not affect the clutches as they are only used when changing gear the 'slipping' of the drive is caused because there is no direct connection between the crankshaft and the gearbox, as im sure you are all aware, the drive is transmitted through the torque converter, which at low revs will allow this slipping i.e having the car in gear, whilst stationary, without stalling the engine, but there is still a certain amount of friction within the fluid coupling at idle (which is why the car will creap away when the brake is released) and this friction is the cause of the heat build up.
Hope this makes sense.

D

This post has been edited by dean on October 01, 2008 04:59 pm

The house will probably remain divided on whether to shift to Neutral or stay in Drive at traffic lights. For normally flowing traffic and short stops it's not necessary to shift into N. The transmission has been designed for staying in D. If it weren't the purpose of an autobox would be defeated. But it is true that the Citroen XM manual states shifting into N is advisable during longer stops (engine running, of course). It doesn't say how long these longer stops are. You figure it out yourself.
I must confess that in all the 34 years I've been driving automatics, roughly 20 in Citroens, I've never followed the advice I just now discovered in my owner's manual Never had any problems either. I don't think the manufacturers of the non-Cits I owned put this advice in their manuals. It would be interesting to see if other marques with the same ZF boxes put this note in their user manuals too.

So why do they bother to put a "Neutral" position on the selecctor if there's no reason to use it, Jan?

Sophie, the time you are stopped is the criterion. If you are in stop-start traffic then of course you remain in Drive. But if, as you said in your original post, you are stopped at traffic lights then you should follow the advice in the manual and select Neutral.

Incidentally, with the current price of fuel I go a stage further. If I'm stuck at a railway crossing barrier, or anywhere else when I know I'm going to be there for a couple of minutes, I turn the engine off. Of course if you don't live in this overtaxed God forsaken country, that doesn't apply!

Derek

For towing and starting the engine?