2.1td Stuck In Gear, All I need...

[Ciaran]

Evening folks

After the (still unresolved) gear linkage antics with the S1 a couple of weeks ago, I obviously need another problem of this nature like a hole in the head.

Not one to be deterred, the S2 has thrown up a lovely wee problem tonight.
Leanne has just called me from her work, the car is stuck in reverse and just will not come out. Shes tried clutching more times than enough, wiggling the gearstick at every angle known to man, even stalling it in gear, rocking it back and forward etc, but nothing works, it just will not come out of reverse.

Last weekend she reported to me that she had been driving, and it seemed difficult / impossible to go from 3 to 2 when coming down the gears, but that it was fine when going up.
I went out and checked it, and it seemed to recitfy itself after a time, behaving normally all week, until tonight...

As I'm at home and the child is in bed, I can't even go down to investigate, so she's had to call the AA out. Will be interesting to see what they find.

In the meantime though, any thoughts?
I don't think the clutch is worn, its been driving normally with no slipping, pedal feels normal etc. There is no gringing from the box either, it just suddenly locked in gear. It doesn't seem like the linkage either....

Any pointers appreciated!

[citroenxm]

Cairen

Ive seen this problem on another 2.1td manual, this time it was stuck in 2nd... it was NEVER resolved.. I guess something on the selector internally has broken...

BUT I may be able to help you...

I have a 2.1 TD manual box here in my shead that I borrowed 5th gear selector cog from it for my 24v gearbox transplant...

Im sure with your box and this one we could sort you out with a working box??

This box is no good to me now...

Rgds
Paul

This post has been edited by citroenxm on July 14, 2008 09:59 pm

[aengus-xmv6]

hi Ciaran

seems luck is not with you at the moment.
Guessing, could be linkage related, assuming no issues with the box itself, I guess the lever is behaving properly?

Also check the gear lever is ok on it's own mount/swivel - think that's been reported in the past, and on previous alfa's I had, worn bushes there caused some interesting moments or heavy shifts.

For the box, early ones apparently suffered wear on the selector fork, but think the symptom was more you shifted out of 5/R and ended with the car in gear but the lever in neutral and unable to select anything. The BX/XM guide (I think) details this and how to adjust.

good luck with resolving it
Dave

[citroenxm]

If the lever WONT move, then I guess very much it wont be the lever but the box...

Beleve me, I saw this other XM stuck in gear, it was not a lever fault but defenatly a Box fault, and after opening up a Box on the 24v ( they use the same design boxes) I can see how wear can cause it to jam up....

Rgds
Paul

[Ciaran]

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for the extremely quick replies, always good to know you can rely on quick and friendly advice from this place, is a big reassurance

Paul, thank you for that kind offer on the box. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I may well be taking you up on it depending what I can source locally.

This is quite strange, I guess it could be the linkage as you've suggested Dave, I certainly hope its that and not the box!
I'll see if I can get investigating once (if) it ever comes home.

Of course, I can barely stand or bend down at the moment due to back issues, but I'm sure that'll be fun too

Cheers guys.

Ciarán

[Ciaran]

Ok......

Its just driven home under its own power....

The AA guy arrived, clutched in and started it, and after a struggle and much wiggling, out of reverse it came.

It went into forward gears fine, and was able to be driven the whole way home without incident...

I've just driven it forwards and back down the street about 10 times and it shifted normally each time.....

Baffled now. I'm guessing a linkage or adjustment issue, but it could still easily be the box....

Will report back any findings.

Cheers

Ciarán

[Peter.N.]

Hi Ciaran

I assume you have checked it for oil This is not a problem I have yet experienced, although - give it time. The external linkage seems fairly straight forward, any ammount of wear on the ball joints would cause them to drop off. I suppose you dont have a bent selector rod? they are quite flimsy really but fairly well protected by their position but I suppose its possible for something to have hit one. They generally seem to be a fairly bomb proof gearbox, like the engines, so I have never had one apart.

Peter.

[Ciaran]

Hi Peter,

I found today that it had plenty of oil in it alright.... just a pity that it was automatic transmission fluid, and not proper manual gearbox oil.

The ATF is somewhat thinner, and the verdict is that it has allowed the box to overheat nicely for the past few years, the sum of which is that the cogs and selection mechanism are now quite worn.
When selecting reverse, its picking up 5th as well, which is why its locking up.

Now with the proper oil in it its drivable with care, but a box rebuild / swapout is on the cards.

I've noticed that now when it locks in reverse, it allows you to move the shifter into neutral, quite dangerous, as its still in gear, and the car will lunge forward (or backward) when the clutch is released. The way out of it is to carefully let the clutch up slowly, a very slight amount, until the car almost stalls, then push it back down before it actually moves anywhere. This has the effect of jerking it out of 5th / reverse, and 1st can then be selected so long as the clutch is kept held in. If you don't select 1st in the same motion like this, then it will go back into neutral fine, but be unable to select 1st or 2nd.
If this happens, then the only way to resume normal operation of 1st and 2nd is fo select 3rd and move forward a little, this then allows 1st to be selected normally afterwards.
Fun fun, but at least its drivable.

I'm told that a rebuild of this is possible without removing the engine. If this happens then I'll try and document the process for further reference on here....

Methinks I'll be changing the box oil as a matter of course on any newly acquired purchase from now on....

Cheers

Ciarán

This post has been edited by Ciaran on July 15, 2008 09:38 pm

[citroenxm]

I knew it WAS the BOX NOT the linkage....

Well, as I said theres a PERFECT box here, just needs the Fifth gear sorting out, and its NOT the gear cog thats knackered, its a matter of 3 springs and small ball bearings.. Ive now made a jig for dooing it...

Box can go cheap, its in my way!

Rgds
Paul

[Ciaran]

Hi Paul,

There *may* be one locally, am waiting to find out, but if not I'd be happy to take you up on your kind offer.

Will let you know what happens

Cheers

Ciarán

[Peter.N.]

Hi Ciaran

Oh dear I've never heard of that before but that would do it. Presumably its wear on the selectors thats causing the problem. I have never tried to take an XM box apart but I have a CX one, you can remove the cover and expose all the gears with it in situ. I didn't have to completely dismantle it as my paoblem, like Pauls was with 5th gear, the synchro suddenly packed up, I fitted another ring but did I have a job getting the hub back together, springs and balls everywhere., I wish I had Pauls jig when I did it.

Peter.

[aengus-xmv6]

hi Ciaran

take a read of the online guide here - on the common gearbox issue....
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/transm...ransmission.php

the selector fork wears and you *might* be able to adjust it to improve matters, but then if the box is very worn, replacement of the fork is the better option, with a known good, or new if you can get it, or of course the box itself, as you won't know what else will fail on you later.

regards
Dave

[Ciaran]

Hi Dave,

That is precisely what is happening, describes it down to a T. I'm not sure how worn the fork is or if adjustment is possible, but as you say its all going to depend on how bad it, and everything else is...

More news as it becomes available

Ciarán