Lpg -- Better Than Petrol ?

Hi Peter

The feature that makes diesel exhaust such a problem is that the black particulates are typically just the size that is likely to cause medical problems when breathed into the lungs. This fact is seldom mentioned due I suspect to heavy transport/public transport reliance on diesel engines and that doing something about it quickly would destabilise our economy. Biodiesel reduces particulates by some 30% and used coupled with a Cat 68%. I suspect that this is why a proportion of Biodiesel will become mandatory next year. Expect the Biodoesel proportion to be progressively increased.

Regards

John

Hi John

Do not these 'particulate filters' as used on the HDI engine dispose of most of them?

Peter.

ABSOLUTLY!!!

You could eat your dinner off the inside of the Rocker cover on the V6 after drying the oil its that clean! The exhaust is rather cleaner too!

The oil, that also doesn't seem to want to go black, even after 7,000 miles!!!




C

My experince is not a pleasent one. Ocober 21st 2004 I was taken into hospital with a bad asthma attack. At 10:17 I suffered total repiratory failure. As you may notice this was not fatal, but I was unconsious for 2 days and on life support. The reason? Diesel Soot had irritaed my lungs to such an extent they had become infected. I was at the time working in a petrol station with a broken automatic door where diesel engine are starting up and shutting down (when they make the most particulates).

The deisel engine a wonderfully elegant solution, and has to be admired, but unless kept correctly setup can be an environmental and health hazzard. I do wonder what sort of NHS costs are being stored up by the govmnt's determination to outlaw petrol, leaded petrol is small fry compared to particulates.

Stewart

Hi Stewart

Sorry to hear of your experience and glad you survived it, not surprised you feel as you do about diesel exhaust.

This was the issue when diesels first started getting popular and the government did everything they could to stem their popularity. It was as a result of this and 'global warming' of course that they brought in all the legislation to reduce particulates. You don't hear anything about it now, what is the governments position? Or have they found that they can now make money from diesels and have gone quiet?

Peter.N.

Hi Peter

My understanding is that diesel black smoke and particulates are not one and the same. The particulates are virtually invisible and highly susceptible to remain floating in the air so easily breathable. They can remain in the air after any black smoke has dispersed and may well be present even though there is no black smoke.

Regards

XMexc

Quick question...

I'm considering an estate with LPG, but I'd rather have a toroidal tank to keep the load space free. However - doesn't the estate have a spare wheel carrier slung under the rear, rather than a well? From what I've read, underslung tanks must have at least 250mm ground clearance.

So are you limited to a cylinder in the load area in an estate?

Cheers!

It is indeed a cradle underneath for the spare wheel on the estate. Does the saloon have it inside the boot then?

thanks for that!

hmmmm....wonder if the underside of the car is high enough (at normal ride height) then?

This post has been edited by mouseflakes on April 25, 2008 02:59 pm

Mouseflakes

ALL XM's have an underslung spare wheel cradle. They have NEVER been inside the boot!

Zaphod will be able to answer your question about ground clearence his 2.oi Turbo has a tank in the wheel well.. Or if he doesn't I can HOPEFULLY on sunday when I see the car saturday night...

At the moment I have a 80litre tank in the boot in the V6, it takes the versitility away from the car, as the tank is in the way of having the seats folded...

Rgds

C

Thanks for that citroenxm - I was beginning to suspect it was the case!

Shame to have a big load space and not be able to use it properly - I shall have a think about it while I wait to hear back about the ground clearance issue - thanks for offering to check that out!

Hi all, I'd just like to add my unscientific comparison regarding LPG: I have just finished instaling a gas system in my CX - it really was the only way I could deal with its mean 23mpg which is appauling since it's hardly a 'burning rubber' machine.

I have a 1.9 D Xantia non turbo automatic that I got for free. It is the slowest xantia ever made I believe, mind you it is never embarrassingly slow. Running on SVO and DERV together it performs well enough for me (I love Citroens for everything except their sportiness)

The CX is a 2.4 C-matic, it has a big iron engine that can trace it's line way back to the 30s traction, It has a modern (by 70s standard) cylinderhead and a fluid coupling transmission and as a result it has poor economy: high 20s at best, 19mpg on the urban at worst. Changing it to gas has literally just happened. I only finished the basic hardware of it the other evening and when I was sure it was safe went to fill it up. Once I'd tuned it to idle and rev freely I started to note how different to petrol the LPG running was.

Oddly, it idles exactly the same consistent idle speed but with the same mild lumpiness as on petrol, it revs freely and performs well on the open road. I'd say that from stand still to 30, it is 'nippier' than on petrol, it just feels more willing to move now. The engine heats up much faster on gas and I note that the cooling fans switch on more. The most interesting thing so far is that I tried to start it on LPG from cold in the morning expecting it not to work but it started and holding it on the throttle a bit kept it going for a few minutes until there was enough heat passed to the reducer unit to idle on its own. It actually starts BETTER than petrol now (this is a carburetor CX with a manual choke)

I also believe that it runs a bit quieter too, especially on idle where you can hear the tappets and that's all! (HP pump too on occasion)

LPG also seems to be quicker to fill the tank than on petrol and diesel, and you get to use the filler pump with the big comedy button to push. There's also something kinda 'Ghostbusters' about the filler nozzle especially when you release the pressure

So with my new, limited experience of LPG I recommend its economy, relative greenness and positive performance.

Personally, I find Diesels OK but feel their day has passed given the price of DERV and that the emissions are not so great to justify the potential negatives as mentioned. I still think the greatest diesel days were the days of the BX 17D and Visa 17D (and the Peugeot equivalents) they were light cars with the best diesels of the time.

I think that the turbo BX diesel was the first diesel 'hot hatch' for the size of the engine their performance was amazing. The CX DTR turbo was no slouch either, I had one for seven years and covered over 150k in it. The turbo 2 was the fastest diesel on the road for some time, 0-60 in around 10 seconds was going some in 1987.

This post has been edited by Peter.N. on April 26, 2008 10:03 pm

Diesels have not passed their best, they now have the BEST ROAD TAX price on the road, other then LPG ...

You'll find the LPG will CLEAN up the engine, and de coke it over time! LPG does run hotter, BUT the vaporiser HAS to have hot water to prevent it from freezing up as the gas hits atmospheric air.. LPG will run from cold, as long as your engine is a quick warmer to get the warm to hot water running through the vaporiser.
My V6 will run from cold on Gas, and warms up quite quickly, so I litterally use petrol to fire her up, raise the suspension, move oput the gate, and switch over.. and it doesn't freeze up..

You may find after a few miles you'll need to make a few adjustments to the running and mixture, as the engine cleans out it will run more freely, you'll ALSO notice, that your oil will stay golden for TWICE the time, if at all...

Have fun ...

Rgds

C

The reason I was asking is that I've seen an automatic turbo estate (VSX) with a gas conversion for sale fairly local to me.

I went to see the car but I think it belonged to the (possibly late) uncle of the seller and there was little information about the conversion or anything else for that matter.

I had a short drive in the car, but it felt very 'woolly' - the gear selection was sticky and it seemed quite gutless - is that normal??

If anyone is interested here's a link to the advert...

http://www.trade-it.co.uk/AdRef/RW813WCRM/...llAdDetails.asp

This post has been edited by mouseflakes on April 27, 2008 10:25 pm