Xm Fatal Illnesses

I notice a number of members recently who are planning to scrap their manual gearbox XMs because of clutch failure. So it's not just dodgy autoboxes that sound the death knell.

Derek

I believe these clutch assemblies are often still available on ebay at silly prices, and the replacement itself on the 2.1 TD can be done relatively easily without taking the engine out.
It is a different kettle of fish with the 2.5 TD!!!

I can only speak for myself but I'd prefer an auto box.
The future of my manual XM is hanging in the balance at the moment....mainly due to a slipping clutch.
Perhaps the clutch is another weak point in the XM.....mine has 113k on the clock.
In my oppinion it would be more worth saving if it was an automatic.
Also the engine and model are probably factors which influence the decision to scrap it or not....I don't think you'll see many V6 exclusives being scrapped over a dodgy clutch or gearbox.
Mine is a basic 2.0i....not very inspiring.
I'm having it checked out by a Citroen specialist soon, to see if there are any other disasters lurking before I do anything about the clutch, if it requires much more it'll be for the chop.

Its a lot cheaper to change a clutch than repair an auto box and a clutch should be good for 150 - 200k driven sensibly, and...its a diy job! Mine has done 175k and the clutch is still perfect and even when they do start to slip you can get another 20 - 30k or more out of them if you dont make them slip. You havn't convinced me...yet.

Peter.N.

My original 2.0SEi had a new clutch around 115K miles, I think the 'useful' hand&foot-brake when on slopes could be part of the reason, as I tended to sit on the footbrake and then slip the clutch when about to be moving off, rather than go neutral and then parking brake and so on, too much hassle in stop start traffic, especially in hilly areas etc. Also first wife used it for her job, lots of short trips between visits per day, which would not have helped it much.

The V6, just had a new clutch beginning of last year - £400 at dodgy Mr Clutch, never again. Indy wanted £700, Cit >£1200 !!

Make sure they change the nylon bushes at the ends of the clutch release lever, mine weren't done, as the 'bolt' on the release arm would not budge and we weren't going to look at cutting it to remove it and then source a replacement. They had the car 3 days and while the clutch works the "finishing of the job properly" left a LOT to be desired - be sure your branch is capable of doing a proper job and better yet, has seen an XM before if you plan to try them.

As Peter says, you can run it for a while if it's just started to slip, but be mindful that once the heads of the rivits hit the flywheel, it will get quite expensive. That said, I ran mine for a good few K and I used to launch away from the lights at quite a speed

regards
Dave

Dave,

"dodgy Mr. Clutch"......???

What do you know? Please tell. I had a quote from Mr. Clutch, the cheapest I found....£230, I thought they were my salvation, all the other quotes were over £400, nearer £500, that's probably more than the car is worth .

I thought they would be able to manage a clutch......as long as they don't need to touch the suspension I thought it would be ok.

I know the XM auto box has a bad reputation but I had an Xantia auto for three years and it was great, no problems, I wonder if it's the same auto box that's used in the XM....

And your point about the stupid XM hand brake, that's another good reason for having an auto box.....the hand brake was obviously designed for an automatic car.
I was talking to a Citroen dealer recently and he told me that a lot of potential XM customers were put off by the ridiculous hand/foot brake.

Paul.

I'm with you on the ridonculousness of the hand/footbrake. I don't see why that has to mean more clutch wear though. With handbrake, you apply it, but stay in gear, engage the clutch til it bites, release the brake, drive away. Using the footbrake (not the foot/handbrake), you hold the car on the brake, leaving it in gear still, then when the lights change, a quick shift to the gas, and let the clutch out. If anything, I'd think this would lead to slipping the clutch LESS.

hi Paul,

ok, here goes....

they book the car in over the phone, 2 days to do it...

but don't order in the clutch so then look it up when I've got there
and there's 2 possible types, so they order the one that 'should' be correct
strip car down and report clutch cable faulty as no travel so you'll need a new one
(after I'd already explained the adjust to them when I dropped the car off)
on stripping the car down, find release bearing is the wrong type
so order in the other kit - will be next day.
could not get the release arm off so not able to change the nylon bushes - threaded pin seived.
new clutch kit arrives, that has the right bearing, so start reassembly
but now we're at day 3 because of not ordering the parts in in time.
told it will be ready by 17:00, call in before setting off - oh yes will be ready...
turn up at 16:45, bonnet still up and still being put back together
wait while it's finished off
they drive it up the workshop & reverse and theninto car park
hand over keys
seems ok, nice & light pedal....
drive home

car not quite right on the road, but can't figure what/how...
turn right at roundabout & accelerate onto A13, clonk under car, probably a stone.
stop off & collect wife
vagueness in steering & slight drift but....
almost home, turn right - big clonks, something bouces along under & out my side of the car along road
stop and walk back - bolt, 4-5inch - ah, subframe bolt...
look under - aargh - only 2 left on drivers side and just in by a couple threads!!!

check over car & lots not re-done properly - hyd pipe clips, missing bolts.
later, hyd pipe leaks in areas worked (subframe under end of gearbox - what's the betting the box was rested/dropped on the pipes at one point?)

need any more convincing?

try googling for Mr Clutch - shocking reads posted by other 'normal' car owners.

A lot will depend on the branch, of course.
DON'T use the southend-on-sea one.

Funny that I went to the Ilford branch for the warranty check (they see if the pedal travel is as it should be etc) and mentionned the problems - reply - yes we've had a lot of customers come here for rectification work after going there.....

Either way, whoever you go to - check that all they hyd pipe clamps are back in place properly when you get the car back. A pressure pipe fracture a few weeks later is a real PITA, been there after the Cit indy (centre) I went to didn't do this, or rather, broke the clamp & didn't bother to replace it.

regards
Dave

Does your wife drive the car Sam....

We used to live at the top of Crystal Palace hill, and she worked in the area making home visits (midwife). Took her a long time to get the biting point worked out, and then combining it with the nice parking brake arrangement..... very helpfull on a steep hill, so lots of revs & slipping the clutch....

That said, the V6 clutch didn't make 100k, probably not helped by PO driving off in 2nd as it was too quick for him... slipping the clutch as he went

rgds
Dave

Thanks Dave,

that doesn't sound good

Sounds like they are to clutches what Quick Fit is to exhausts and tyres.

My local Mr. Clutch is in Sheffield, about 40 miles away, but it seemed worth travelling the distance to save a couple of hundred quid, but I didn't realise it was a two/three day job.

If Southend charge £400 then presumably Sheffield are going to have to do some pretty severe corner cutting to do it for £230, and it sounds like Southend have already cut most of the corners.....a bit worrying .....time for a rethink.

Mr. Scrap beckons........

Paul.

ah yes, kr*p-F*k - another of those wonderful motoring fast-fit places where you are left wondering why you went when your better judgement told you it wasn't a good idea

Mine was on the V6, which model is yours?

but then apparently may be easier in some aspects on the V as the engine block is shorter?

When I had the 2.0SEi done at an indy it was £350, but that was about 6+ years ago. For the V6, they wanted £700 ish, but experience with them on hydraulic issues has left me crossing them off the list I'd go to again too.

regards
Dave

Dave,

It's a 2.0i, so that may explain why the quote was cheaper than yours.

Even if they did a decent job I wouldn't bother now I know it can't be done in the day. I have a Citroen specialist (ex dealer) about ten minutes walk away, they seem ok, but they wan't £500......(to do the job right presumably).
They're going to check the car over for me some time soon, so if there's anything major needs doing I'll be getting rid of it anyway.

Fingers crossed,

Paul.

Hi Guys.

As you're talking clutches ---- is there any 'typical' mileage for the 2.5 unit to last ? I've not worn one out yet, but then I've never known if they've been previously replaced. What's prompted the thought is that I'm going to have to do the belts in the course of the year and I'm vaguely wondering whether it would be worth having the lump out -- making belt access easier -- and doing the clutch as a precaution at the same time. It will be around the 140k mark. Also, what's the story with the clutch hydraulics -- when do they die ? The last one I did was on a 2.1, which lasted to just under 300k miles -- but that's an in situ job anyway. All thoughts welcome.

Mike.

Hi Mike

Have one 2.5 estate with the clutch gone at 110k but this must have been abused by PO and is unusual. The only other 2.5 of mine to have clutch problems had a new one fitted under PO at 175k. I had a load of bits off a local R reg 2.5 taxi that was scrapped with a badly slipping clutch at 275k. So my estimate for average 2.5 clutch life is around 180k. The hydraulic clutch drive is a sealed system and should be reusable without problems. According to the invoice it did not get replaced when my estate had the new clutch. The amount the clutch needs to be released to get bite is a good wear guide. Short travel is plenty of wear left. Long travel to bite means it is getting worn pretty thin. Will know more over the next few months as I have some recovered engines (140k & 175k) to split from the boxes.

Regards

XMexc

This post has been edited by xmexclusive on February 02, 2008 12:47 am

ouch, engine out to do the belts! - but guess they're awkward on the 2.5 as is the clutch. I'd say that if you're having the lump out in any case, the do it, as you'll only need to get it done a little while later, no doubt.

as to clutch life, hard to say, depends on driving style etc, and I guess a deisel would need less gear changes than the petrol engine cars. Still, clutch plate, pressure place & release bearing will eventually go.

How much is the clutch assembly, then compare to time & effort/cost of getting one fitted as a seperate job and then it's your choice.... and if you do go for it, it'll only be half-worn when you remove the old one

HTH
Dave