Peugeot Problems, Low power

[demag]

My son has a Pug 306 1.9 diesel (non turbo) W reg 2000. Not the xud but the later Dy8 engine. This was the engine used in the Hdi after boring to 2 litres I think. It revs freely to 3 thou then gets all breathless and struggles to gain any more revs.

At 3 thou there is also a high ish frequency buzz develops.

Haven't had much time to look yet but its easier to short shift and keep the revs around two thousand.

[onthecut]

Hi Demag.

Not familiar what Peugeot did in their versions. Is this HDi, or the old unit ? If it's HDi, my daughter had the same age car, which inside of 50k from new devoured three lift pump relays, followed by the lift pump itself. If it's the older version, I'd start with the fuel filter and then the strainer on the pick up in the tank. Same access sytem as the XM.

Mike.

[demag]

Hi Mike.

Its the hdi engine in a 1.9 version and its mechanical injection not electronic. They used the same lump as a 2.0 litre in the hdi but didn't start production till 2001 I think.

Driving it, it does feel like starvation but up to 2500 revs (ish) its fine, then just dies at 3000. I pulled out in front of a Golf the other night with what should have been plenty of room and it wouldn't go! Have you ever seen a Golf mounting a 306? It was that close!

I think I'll try a fuel filter for starters and see if that helps. He tends to run it on a low tank a lot (kids!) and I wonder if the tank filter is blocked?

[demag]

Sorry didn't read all your post, you already suggested that. Its early!

[demag]

Changed the diesel filter today and checked the tank strainer. Still the same. I think this one has a mechanical pump as there isn't one in the tank. I never actually noticed when the bonnet was up!!

[demag]

This has been going on for a long time now. I've been nagging my lad to get it done and at last he booked it into an injection specialist last week! He reckons its egr related and the injection is ok. It struggles to do 30mph now!!

Today I took the plenum off and cleaned the soot and gunge out. The diesel bloke said he disabled the egr but it seems worse now! What I did notice was with everything off, plenum, egr etc. It revs freely to near the red line, obviously noisy though. Where the egr pipe comes around off the exhaust it is pumping black smoke out when disconnected. When I put everything back on it is dead again and blowing white/pale blue smoke out the exhaust.

I am beginning to form an idea in my head. If the exhaust was somehow blocked or partially blocked, that would cause excessive amounts of exhaust fumes and smoke to be blown up the egr pipe and recirculate through the engine. At the same time the excessive fumes would starve the engine of oxygen therefore strangling it. Hence it revs with the egr disconnected. Can we physically blank the egr? Remove the pipe and block the hole in the exhaust? That will then allow fresh air to be drawn into the engine and hopefully let it rev. I have never been unfortunate enough to mess with one before and I can't get the crap of my fingers even after scrubbing! I notice people have had egr problems on Xm's before. Are they similar issues to this?

Any comments would be very graciously accepted as we are now back to one car again!

[Peter.N.]

Hi Demag

Such a complicated fault for such a simple engine! It sounds like a restriction of air intake, but with a non turbo this would normally lead to clouds of black smoke, unless, it has an inlet manifold pressure/vacuum sensor connect to the pump as in the turbo version, which is restricting the fuel. I suppose you have changed the air filter? Your restricted exhaust theory sounds possible, does it have a cat? The mind boggles!

Peter.N.

[demag]

Yes it does have a cat Peter. We just had another look and I noticed a vacuum pipe spigot broken on the egr valve. But what the vacuum actually does I have no idea. Hold it shut? Help it open? Who knows. Anyway with that spigot broke the valve is no good anyway. I cleaned it all with carb cleaner today but it didn't help. While my son was holding it on a steady(ish!) throttle I put my hand by the exhaust and there's a fair amount of pressure there so I think that's ok. We took it to a diesel guy the other day and he said he had blocked the egr. We found it today, a piece of aluminium coke can! The exhaust had burnt straight through it!

There is an indie Pug guy a couple of miles away looks like a trip to him next week.

[Peter.N.]

Does it run OK if you disconnect the air intake at the manifold?

Peter.

[2smv627]

We had in a Peugeot Partner with the DW8 engine, which was struggling to rev and smoked. I found that in the inlet to the intake manifold there is a butterfly flap which was half closed due to the linkage on the outside coming apart. Refitting linkage cured problem. I did notice that before I cured it, the pipe from rocker box to inlet manifold would suck flat when you tried to rev engine.

[demag]

If we take the plastic plenum off the top of the engine so the inlet manifold is open. It will run and rev ok. Obviously very noisy but nevertheless it runs. It will also run with the plenum in place but not so well but that could be because I can't get the egr away from the engine far enough and it sucks some fumes. There appears to be quite a bit of black smoke coming from the egr pipe which I'm not sure about. There is a biggish rubber pipe coming from the crankcase to the cambox cover but I never thought to check if it was sound or not. If we put it all back on, it runs like a ruptured pig. Hunting and popping and spitting back almost like a petrol engine thats way too advanced and trying to kick back.

I've been looking for a run around tonight as the mot is now up on mine and I still need to get some jobs done. Rang after a few but they'd gone. Went to see a Proton 1.5 auto for £600. What a nail! Couldn't get away quick enough! I'm going to ring after a rather nice looking Xantia td tomorrow and a Pug 406 td as well. Got to keep on the road somehow!

[Peter.N.]

Definitly sounds like an impediment to the air supply. Look for flap mentioned in previous post (I don't know this engine) otherwise check for causes of restricted air flow, collapsed pipe etc.

Peter.N.

[Norman]

Hi Demag.
I had a similar problem on my company car all the symtoms you discribed, as i went along it got slower and slower untill it came to a stop it would rev up no problem but would not pull the car , The AA man tested for compression found it absolutly fine but still would not go. Towed it to the garage replaced the Catalitic convertor ran like a new one the one and only time i had a cat block up on me.
hope that helps.
Norman

[David Hallworth]

if its the HDi engine, its definately got a turbo.

The 1.9 never used the same common rail technology as the HDi engine.

if you still having problems, try joining www.pug306.net

sounds like it could defo be a blocked Cat.

David.

[demag]

Well after all this time we finally got it sorted!

We found this Irish bloke running a diesel garage on a scruffy industrial estate not far away. Took it to him and he found it was the cat blocked! He surgically removed the cat from the exhaust system and it is now as good as new!!

You where right Norman.

Thanks for all the suggestions all.

This post has been edited by demag on October 11, 2007 01:44 pm