Lucas Epic Pump, dissmantling

[colinxm]

Hi all, been away for a while concentrating on installing a new kitchen but now i'm back with itchy fingers and lots of tools, looking for something to play with

Well here goes, anyone got any information on dissmantling and setting up the Lucas "EPIC" diesel pump ? any info whatsoever on the whole electronically managed fueling system fitted to my 1995 2.1 TD would be greatfully received !

Thanks in advance, Colin.P

[Peter.N.]

Hi Colin

I find that a bit puzzling as both of mine are Jan '96 reg and have mechanical pumps! I can only conclude that it was actually made later than mine, what's the RP number?

As far as information is concerned, I cant help. If I had one I would be inclined to fit a mechanical one, they dont go wrong.

Peter.N.

Ah! I've just spotted your RP No. Yes, it was made after mine.

This post has been edited by Peter.N. on July 07, 2007 04:01 pm

[onthecut]

Hi Colin.

My local diesel rebuild place is distinctly unenthusiastic about these pumps; at the risk of stating the obvious, make sure you can get any seals and gaskets etc. before you get stuck in. I'm sure someone on the forum will be more clued up than me about them, though. If you require parts and can't source them, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
I have the Autodata wiring diagram for the Xantia fitted 2.1 if that might be any help. They don't list it for the XM. Typical ! As a matter of interest, what are you looking to achieve ?

MIke.

[xmexclusive]

Hi Colin

In seen at the scrappies I put up a note on May 23 about a P reg 2.1 VSX in a yard near me. I think this had a Lucas Epic as it was different from PeterN's 2.1's and had an engine management ECU in the box. Car had done around 110k. Will try to look out the photos just to check. If you think with postage it would be economic I will find out how much they want for the complete pump.

Regards

XMexc

[xmexclusive]

Hi Colin

Further to the above. Have looked through the photos. Cannot tell the pump type but electronic not mechanical and looks nothing like the 2.5 one on my cars. Mileage was 101k, ORG 6785 and VIN VF7Y4WD0000WD6009. When I get the chance I will go and check how much has gone since I last looked and get a price for the pump.

Regards

XMexc

[Peter.N.]

You cant see the pump but the square trunking on the engine gives it away, it carries all the wiring for the sensors, so it will be an EPIC pump.

Peter.N.

[colinxm]

Hi gents, thanks for your replies the problem with my car is that when at light throttle openings, it feels mildly like a petrol engine with an intermittant spark on one cylinder. I've cleaned and checked all electrical connections, checked all sensors and replaced two coolant sensors that were open circuit - this helped a little but now the plugs don't glow long enough when starting from cold , I've removed the front of the car to gain access to the front of the pump to insert a timing pin, I've replaced the fuel and air filter, I've replaced the injectors and have no air leaks so now I'm thinkig of turning my attention to the pump, maybe something just needs a little "tweek" but from what little info I have, everything seems to be governed electronically - there must though be a "base" setting N'est pas ?

Xmexclusive, thanks for the offer, I'm not too worried about obtaining the pump as it's done roughly the same milage as my car and if mine should ever pack up, I have a complete Bosch mechanical system in the shed waiting to be fitted.
I would though be VERY interested in obtaining the glow plug relay and the throttle potentiometer if you don't mind helping out - I would of course make it worth your while

Mike, you have once before given me the autodata stuff thanks, it came in very useful when checking out the various sensors

Peter, mine is a Norwegian spec xm, I think the EPIC system was fitted here before it was forced onto the poor unsuspecting British public

Once again gents, Many thanks for you help !

Cheers Colin.P

[DOD]

Hi,
my latest car is also fitted with the epic pump. Mine has an occasional misfire giving a loud knock, momentary loss of power and a puff of smoke. Those in the know suggested injectors, but the epic ones cost a lot to service and I am not confident that this will provide a cure. The epic pump is basically a mechanical pump that works with higher injector pressure and an electronically governed enrichment mechanism as I understand it. There is a lot written about it (none very complimentary) on transit sites, the main recommendation being to replace it with a mechanical one. If you do this, I would be very interested to read the details of the job as I may well find myself in the same boat soon. That being said, mine is running much better in the warmer weather and we,re off to France at the end of the week in it.
cheers
DOD

[steelcityuk]

My 2.1 has a Lucas pump too. Seems well behaved and powerfull. Do you think it could be the injector lift pin sensor that's faulty?

BTW DOD a member on the XM-L forums has already swapped his Lucas pump for a Bosch if you fancy having a look.

Steve.

[onthecut]

Hi Colin.

The EP1C pump is basically an old fashioned distributor pump with electrics added on --- and I suspect unlikely to give the intermittent single cylinder misfire feel you describe. Were there a significant fault in it, my guess is the symptom would be more consistent. Aside from the solenoid, anything else will only serve to vary the general delivery to all cylinders.
I know this is basic in the extreme, but are you certain you are not intermittently drawing air into the fuel line somewhere ? Also (if I'm right in remembering there is a conventional stop solenoid on the pump) I'd check the feed (or maybe duplicate it, for test purposes) to the solenoid.

Mike.

[techmanagain]

I've never seen the spec for the Epic pump system, but if it has a sensor on one injector as in the Bosch System, the fault could lie in the wiring connection to that injector. This was a known fault on the Bosch systems on S1 vehicles rectified by soldering the connector near to the engine. It got hot and deteriorated with age.

[Peter.N.]

If the misfire is accompanied by a 'knock' it sounds like a sticking injector needle alowing unatomised fuel in, that would also account for the smoke. If you could isolate the faulty injector it would be a lot cheaper to change one.

Peter.N.

[xmexclusive]

Hi Techmanagain

In your reply you mention Bosch Series 1 wiring as a known problem. Can you please expand on this and identify the XM model/type(s) of engine affected.

Thanks

XMexc

[techmanagain]

There is one connection from the injector sensor on the 2.1 engine fitted to the S1 XM to the injection pump. the connecting wire from the injector is only short, teminating in a connector in front of the engine. As this is so close to the engine, it obviously gets very hot and deteriorates fairly quickly. The acknowledged repair is to cut out the connector completely and solder the wires together. Should the injector have to come out, the wires would have to be cut and re-soldered.

[xmexclusive]

Hi Techmanagain

Thanks, did not realise any S1 diesels had an electrical connection to one of the injectors. I had assumed this started with the EPIC 2.1's which I thought were all S2 cars.

Regards

XMexc