2.1 Td Manual - Should I Buy?, Occasional poster seeks advice

[mouseflakes]

Hello,

I've kind of wormed my way in here over a period of months - pointing out cars for sale and flashing my Renault 30 about.

Well - I now have a spare insurance policy waiting for a car (sold my R25 - you can have a chuckle at the ebay listing here if you like - daft questions in the Q&A section are thanks mainly to the good folk of Autosh*te.com ) - I've wanted an XM for a long time and I've seen many come and go, but I've been constrained by a number of factors.

I'm not going to spend much - I never do. If I'm lucky and a cheap car turns out good - then that's a bonus. If I'm not so lucky and it's a lemon, then what did I expect at that price, and what have I lost? I'm not going to stress over a couple of hundred squid especially if I can get some of it back for parts or whatever. The less you spend, the less you have to lose!

I appreciate the advice that many give to buy the best you can afford - but I'd rather trust £150 to luck that £1500, and any car, any age, is always a risky purchase. So there you go - I'm looking to pay bottom dollar!

Much as I'd love a V6, there's only room in the fuel budget for one of those in my fleet, that one being the R30. So, it's either a 2 litre turbo or a diesel. I've been so impressed with our Saxo and Multipla diesels (I'd only owned petrol engined vehicles until these two) that I'm leaning towards an oil burner.

I love big, comfy, old barges (I've had R25, R30, Toyota Crown, 1972 Audi 100) especially if they offer relaxed driving. For that reason, my first choice would be an automatic - I love the driving style. Also, I've had to do the foot-operated parking brake shuffle in a Mercedes I borrowed from a friend, and feel it distracts from the whole 'wafting' experience.

I also like eccentric design, especially when its French - the Series 1 cars look far nicer to me. IMO the hatch looks better than the estate.

Since we're talking cheap, then you might as well get as much as you can for your money - so leather and other luxuries would be nice, especially as I'll be paying no extra for them at the sort of price I'm after.

Finally - we have a severely disabled daughter who's just two and a half now, but is likely to require more and more special equipment to lug around with us (on holidays and such) as she grows up. So I should really be looking for an estate. This would also mean the dog can go in the back (along with all the afore-mentioned equipment) and keep his claws off the (hopefully leather) upholstery!

If you're still reading - thanks for sticking with me! I will get to the point, honest!

From all the above I guess my ideal car would be a cheap, high spec, automatic series 1 diesel estate.

But I'm going to go and see a cheap, high spec, manual series 1 diesel hatch.

I figure it's so cheap (£200 ono) that it would serve as an introduction to the model with little lost if it's a clunker. It's relatively low miles (110K) with a long test. Who knows - I might find it's all I want from an XM!

It needs rear spheres (I've been told by the vendor that the rear is soft??) and both front window motors.

So here's where I turn to you good folk! I do all my own spannering unless I'm really short of time (that's more often these days what with our little 'un needing quite close care) and was wondering how bad a job the window motors are. Also - from that brief description of the 'soft' rear end - is it possible to pinpoint the problem that needs rectifying here?

I'm aware of the head gasket issues with this engine - it just seems to be something you have to deal with when it occurs.

Also - just how much of a pain is the parking brake in a manual car? I imagine applying it while facing up hill and holding the car on the clutch is the most awkward thing? I've driven a variety of vehicles (from Renault 4 to 32 tonne hooklift) so it's not so much the technique I'm concerned about as to how much it detracts from what seems to be an otherwise very relaxed driving experience. Has anyone attempted to modify the parking brake - adding an umberella handle type mechanism to the left hand side of the footwell perhaps (I've got an old mechanism from a Renault 16 kicking about somewhere!).

Thanks for bearing with me - if you're still awake I'd like to hear what you think of my reasoning here - I reckon it's worth going to see the car and, if it looks reasonable, snapping it up. How do others see it?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

This post has been edited by mouseflakes on July 06, 2007 10:35 pm

[bigjohnh]

Hi Mouseflakes,

The suspension issue might be the wrong way round, the back might be good with healthy spheres (therefore soft) and the front too hard due to duff spheres. With an XM at that price you take pot luck and might need all 7 changing, the cheapest I've found is 15 quid a go to refurb the existing ones.

On the estate versus hatch issue, I can't get my mum's wheelchair in the back of a hatch XM, the boot is a little shallow.

On the subject of a parking brake I can't imagine driving an XM manual BUT with a diesel the tendency to maintain revs at tickover even under load and a bit of careful clutch control might make this a non problem, people like Peter N will be able to advise there.

Hope this helps

John

[dean]

Hi mouseflakes

Thats gota be getting on for the longest introduction ever, but i suppose the more info you supply the more u will get back .
I have to agree, the mk1 hatch is, in my opinion at least, by far the better looking car,i dont like those silly mk2 wing mirrors and limp spoiler.
As regards "over soft rear suspension", is it just the front riding hard?, and by comparison the rear feels "over soft". The only other thing i can think is, it could have spheres from a different car on the back! mine had zantia spheres on each wheel when i got it, and they are a lot softer than xm ones. The reason 4 this is zant ones are Half the price of xm ones when bought from citroen!, Get them from g.s.f by the way, any sphere £20!
And it looks like i need to learn to type faster!

This post has been edited by dean on July 06, 2007 08:26 pm

[techmanagain]

On the subject of a parking brake I can't imagine driving an XM manual BUT with a diesel the tendency to maintain revs at tickover even under load and a bit of careful clutch control might make this a non problem, people like Peter N will be able to advise there.<<<<<<<<<<<

The only time I ever felt I'd like a hand brake on a 2.1TD was at a give-way onto a main road on an upward slope with 1500 kg caravan on the back. The 2.1 proved its worth then and it was no trouble.

[Ken newbold]

Sounds like a man after my own heart

My mate bought an absolute stonking series 2 2.1td manual hatch for £300 so it can be done. He's now done 32,000 miles in 10 months in it!
I've been running my 2.1 td manual for 2 1/2 years now and not had any issues with the parking brake.
Estate cars tend to be more sought after so you may not get one within budget.

But good luck.

[mouseflakes]

Wow - thanks for so much feedback so soon!

Having spoken to the seller tonight, it sounds like Dean and John are right about the rear being okay. He said he couldn't feel it going over bumps in the road - which sounds about right to me from what I've read,. Also suggests that he can feel the front - so I guess there is work to be done there.

Thanks for the parking brake info too - sounds like it could well be okay.

I am keen to get an estate eventually - auto too probably, but I reckon this car might give me a taste of what XM motoring is about, with minimal financial risk! Who knows - I might keep it AND get an estate, once I'm convinced it's worth shelling out a bit more?

I'll let you know how it goes after I've seen the car tomorrow!

This post has been edited by mouseflakes on July 07, 2007 01:37 am

[Peter.N.]

Hi Mouseflakes

Well, as everyone knows the 2.1 td is my is my prefered vehicle, I have had Mk1's and 2's and must say that the Mk2 is a better vehicle from a reliability point of view, but on your budget you are more likely to get a Mk1.

At 110k you shouldn't have head gasket trouble yet unless its been run without antifreeze, check this by tasting the coolant (on the tip of your finger, a cupful is not necessary) it should be quite sweet. If there is no antifreeze it usually means that either the head gasket is already leaking and blowing the water out or it will go shortly due to corrosion. Check for pressure build up in the header tank, after it has been driven and got warm there will be some pressure, but it should not be enough to blow the water out unless its been overfilled. Be careful checking it, undo the filler with a large rag in hand or you could get scalded.

I have driven something like 250k miles in manual XMs and have never found the parking brake to be a problem, I think it might be for an inexperienced driver, but they don't usualluy drive XMs! You only have to use it on a very steep hill and as long as you let the clutch bite before releasing it, you wont have a problem. Mostly its just a case of being quick off the brake and on the accelerator.

The estate is huge, if you can find one, in fact I would go as far as to say it is probably the biggest estate ever made with the exception of the CX. I was a TV engineer before I retired and could get three 28" CRT type TVs in the back with the seat up! With the seat down and using the front I could get ten or more in. I have moved armchairs, settees and concrete blocks in it, in fact I have never found anything which wouldn't go in. (being sensible)

The main reasons that they are my favourite car, are : unsurpassed ride quality, interior comfort, quietness, space and economy. Driven sensibly (by someone of my age) 50 mpg is easily attainable on a reasonable journey, we have managed 55 mpg on our trips to the north of Scotland. This is with a manual of course, I dont personally like auto's and failure of the box will write the car off, but if you can get a good one and dont do to many miles, you may be OK.

No XM is easy to work on but the 2.1 td is one of the less difficult. The head gasket is a pig of a job but well worth doing, I did mine a couple of years and 40k ago and its still going fine.

Dont be put off by duff spheres, whatever car you buy you will probably have to replace them, and you really need a set of new ones to be able to fully appreciate the ride. Dont forget the centre ones, its those that are responsible for the soft ride.

Hope this is of some assistance.

Peter.N.

[mouseflakes]

Thanks Peter.

Yup - the estate would suit me well (I had a Pug 505 wagon a few years back and that was a great hauler) but they do seem to command a premium. I just feel the car I'm going to see would be an opportunity to get a feel for the XM without risking much money.

The parking brake concerns me more when it needs to be applied rather than released - if you're holding the car on the clutch on a hill then I guess you can't apply the parking brake without first knocking the car into neutral as you'll need to take the left foot of the clutch? It might be that I haven't quite grasped the mode of operation yet - I've not driven one! It just sounds a little frantic for what would otherwise be a very relaxed drive.

The only work that worries me would be that head gasket - mainly because the two 6x2's I propped between the rear garden walls last time I needed to hoist an engine have rotted and I'll need to hire a crane next time. I'm fairly happy to attempt work on the spheres - especially with the kind of support available here! As a work colleague (ex-XM and CX owner) explained to me, it's got to be easier than changing coil springs, and I've done a few of those. Fronts on old Renaults (12, 18, 30) are nasty - compressed to about half their unloaded length when fitted, they're quite lively!!

This post has been edited by mouseflakes on July 07, 2007 02:03 am

[Peter.N.]

Hi Mouseflakes (I love that name)

I am sure you will very soon get used to the parking brake, I don't even think about it now. The only problem I do have is when I get into my wifes ZX, I'm waving my left foot about trying to find the pedal!

Your ramp sounds a bit like mine, I have two pieces of timber about 6' X 15" X 4" between the edge of a wall and two oil drums. Because of the height difference I can drive straight on to it (I will put a picture on if I remember) The timber on mine was secondhand about 35 years ago, I think it does actually need replacing now as it creaks and there have been wood wasp nests in it for the last four or five years!

The head gasket job requires a lot of patience, time and a good memory (I still have a box of brackets left over) and it needs two people to lift it off, once you have everything disconnected, but its a great feeling when you put it back and start it, to see that there are no air bubbles in the water.

Peter.N.

[DrTim]

As you probably remember, I live on a hill! Basically, into neutral, then foot on brake, then apply parking brake. Very tempting to omit step 3 when waiting at lights, even on a hill, except it can cause the back end to get a bit frisky:-)

If you dont have offroad parking and you live in narrow streets then the hatch is more realistic than estate.

I was hoping to get a sphere removal tool from ebay but got outbid at last minute:-(
Unlike a lot of you people here I dont have a lot of tools etc of my own, so its indie or scrapyard for anything that requires ramps etc for min, ot thats the cuirrent feeling anyway.

later

[onthecut]

Hi Mouseflakes

Just backing up Peter's comment about the head gasket job. He's being very gentlemanly in describing it as needing a lot of patience ----- it needs a lot of patience with double added plus, I reckon ! Certainly if you are looking at an XM where the head is a known problem, it should be a hugely significant bargaining feature; unless the car is otherwise pretty mint, I think it renders them unsaleable for much more than a scrap price. If you've not done one before, you are looking two days work, minimum, plus whatever machining time is needed and a budget of around £200 ish, depending on what's required and what it's sensible to repalce while you're at it.

Mike.

[Peter.N.]

Those sphere removing tools look very good in the picture, they need to be very strong. The great advantage over a chain wrench is that they have no 'give' in them so it should be much easier to give the sphere the necessary shock - I might even think about getting one.

Peter.N.

[mouseflakes]

Brief update - I really need my bed!

Well - I bought the car and will pick it up next weekend. One thing that I was happy to see was that the front strut top mounts looked pretty much perfect - almost as if they have been replaced in the recent past.

It drove nicely, though it wasn't far or on main roads.

It could do with a new bonnet (very poor paint, attempts to remedy and a long crease) and the nosecone is crazed. It needs an offside front indicator lens and the 'plastichrome' strip for the front bumper. It comes with a full set of lenses for the rear and replacement headlamp (one of the existing lenses is holed).

First job for me will be front windows - neither works and I don't think I can live with that for long!

Thanks again for the advice chaps - I'll post my wants and queries in the relevant sections from now.

This post has been edited by mouseflakes on July 08, 2007 01:18 am

[DrTim]

Congrats on becoming an XM owner Mouseflakes:-)

One good thing about living in Bristol is they dont need to salt the roads that much in winter.

You DO need working driver side front window at least, otherwise carparks etc get to be a pain.

[mouseflakes]

Thanks again.

DrTim - I'm sure we'll flash (our headlights) when we see one another (assuming they work!).

I'm looking forward to next weekend - just how good/bad can a £200 XM be, I wonder?

I've had plenty of use out of old French cars that have cost me as little or even less so I'm hoping my luck stays in!

I'm working abroad this week and will be out of touch (not as exciting as it sounds though) - I'll report back after that to let you all know how it goes (the car, not the work ).