2.1 Epic - How Much Smoke?

Hi,

I've noticed that my XM smokes noticably when accelerating, worse than my 405 TD did, although not puthering it can be seen even in daylight. However the engine pulls very well. So I wondered how much other peoples 2.1s smoke and is it easy to turn down an EPIC pump? Is it possible the pump has been tweaked to improve performance and if so what effect will this have on MPG? It does pull far better than my Xantia 110 HDi though this could be down to the gearing.

Thanks.

Steve.

Hi Steve

If you have a lot of power and smoke, that would indicate excessive fueling, only I didn't know you could adjust an an EPIC pump, thats the electronic one isn't it? Both mine have the mechanically governed pump and are adjustable and the green one goes noticably better than the red one but accumulates quite a lot of soot in the exhaust system which manifests itself as black''smoke' when accelerating hard after a long period of gentle driving, but once having cleared it smokes no more, until the next time. The red one, which incidentally has a new engine in it, never seems to smoke at all under any circumstances, but as I say is fairly well down on power. I hope that is of some assistance.

Peter.N.

My (non Epic) 2.1 has always smoked a wee bit on acceleration, and will throw out tons of black stuff for a second if you really floor it. I thought this was normal behaviour, and that as long as the smoke wasn't a funny colour, or the air filter filthy, was nothing to worry about.

However, given that the fueling on the Epics is easily adjusted, it may be worth checking that someone hasn't done so. I'm not sure how to do this, I believe it involves taking the top off the pump to access the integrated electronics, but someone here will know for sure.

Incidentially, I always found the clouds of smoke rather amusing... as the chav in the 106 found out last night when he tried it on, after I had the audacity to out-accelerate him while exiting a roundabout. 'Eat my soot' doesn't have quite the same ring to it, but it was funny to see him being engulfed in clouds of the black stuff as I disappeared into the night

Childish I know, but it was fun....

This post has been edited by Ciaran on May 23, 2007 10:02 am

Hi Ciaran.

Going to be fascinated to see how you get on adjusting the EP1C pump; must say, I thought it was exactly the opposite to your perception -- that the electronic type was much moredifficult to deal with than the mechanical. The absolute easiest by a mile to adjust are the ones Peter and I have -- the Bosch mechanical type ---- big, external screw !!!
Don't forget to have the injectors checked first --- always start with the simple things. Have to say, the last EP1C I had ran clean as a whistle -- it's the 2.5s I've always had smoke issues with.

Mike.

Hi all
When I had my 2.1,before bi-passing the fuel heater mine was VERY smoky on start up.As you know I travel on the ferries quite a lot and it was so embarrassing having to ask all the surrounding cars to wind their windows up until it had started/cleared.One trip it was so thick the Captain sounded his foghorn!
Well done to Noz,John and Peter for the 1000+ posts.
Regards Rob

Why not just ask the previous owner about it? Is it possible that engine has been chipped?

George

Hi all,

I don't like the stigma of a smokey car, besides if I can turn down the pump I may get more MPG.

I'd ask the previous own but to be honest I don't think he'd have had it done, he was too mean to look after the basics so I doubt he'd have spent money on a tune up. Also being polite he seemed to be a complete plantpot, as far as I can tell he ran the car into the floor. How are EPICs chipped, does anyone know?

Thanks.

Steve.

Hi All

Chipping is about using the fuel in the optimum way so in theory it should cause a better burn with less smoke as a greater percentage of the fuel is burnt. If you drive at the same speeds as before you should use a bit less fuel.

My experience suggests that there are at least 3 different smoke problems associated with diesel XM's that can afflict both 2.1's and 2.5TD's.
They have all been mentioned but I find it helpful to identify which type is causing the problem when looking for a solution.

A turbo diesel XM that is relatively lightly driven tends to collect a lot of soot in the exhaust. If the car is then pushed had it will emit clouds of black smoke until the exhaust clears. This is best done just before the MOT by driving it round a quiet road in a low gear at high revs rather than let the tester cover you in soot while you stand behind the car with him testing it. Smoke is black in this case and if the car is stationary leaves a little pile of soot on the ground behind the exhaust. Try to make sure that a diesel is tested while the engine is hot and you will get a lower smoke result.

A turbo diesel with temporary fuel mixture problems is likely to be difficult to start and will emit volumes of white or blue smoke when it does finally start. White indicates a shortage of fuel and blue a surplus of fuel. The fact that the car cleans up its act once started indicates that you are looking for things like air seeping into the fuel line overnight, defective cold start or glow plug not working.

A turbo diesel with permanent fuel mixture and/or timing problems is also likely to be difficult to start but will also smoke even when warm. The smoke haze will be worse with the engine under heavy load and will be noticable in daylight as well as looking much worse in a following cars headlights at night. Injectors, pump then timing are pobably the best order of attack to track this down.

In my experience do it yourself diesel cleaners added to the fuel will do little to solve any of these problems other than relieve you of a small amout of money. Neat diesel cleaner direct into the pump may move a MOT failure into the pass state but will not solve the long term problem. If the car has an electronic injector pump then the master injector with the electrical sensor is most critical as it sets the injection pattern for the other 3 injectors.

Regards

XMexc

Hi Mike,

Regarding adjusting fuel on the Epics, I've never tried it myself, not having one, but I understand they're supposed to be easy to chip (apparently), which would perhaps give some peformance benefit.
You are quite right though, thats still bound to be more difficult (and expensive! ) than just 'screwing her up' as is done on the Boschs....

This does pose the question, would increasing / adjusting fueling for a more efficient burn be likely to increase power to an extent where it would be detrimental to engine reliability / longevity?
I wouldn't mind a wee bit extra, but wouldn't dream of it if it was going to make light work of the head gasket etc, we know the 2.1 is overstretched a bit...

That's always that danger, although I suspect that head gasket failure is as much a matter of time, with the different expansion rates of iron and alumimium every time the engine heats up and cools down, and also very often due to lack of antifreeze/inhibitor. In the days before turbo's the limit of enrichment was governed by the permissable black smoke, but of course with the advent of the turbo, as you increase the fuel so up goes the turbo pressure, maintaining the mixture at tolerable levels up to a certain point, beyond that point, as well as smoking, the engine rapidly looses efficiency as well as being stressed (like me).

Peter.N.

Can I ask what sort of MPG your computers are reporting?

Thanks.

Steve.

Hi Steve
I went out on a 50 mile run today and got 49.1mpg....which I would normally be thrilled with.BUT I have just bought the attached 2cv van to reduce my fuel bills and I doubt it is going to do many more miles to the gallon at 40mph!
Regards Rob

99.9
(Long story )

I'm sure the other guys can give you a more accurate representation than that.

Hi Ciaran
Why does the computer only show a maximum of 620 miles before empty(well mine does)even if you have already travelled over 200 miles.I can understand showing a current 99.9mpg...but why 620 miles left in the tank?
Regards Rob

I have wondered that too.