Coolant Hose, Sprung a leak! :)

/EDIT: Sorry about the massive picture size, the server its hosted on has half crashed and I can't get on to resize it!

Afternoon guys.

Well, I had some fun on the way to work yesterday morning. Coming off the motorway into Belfast about 07:10, I thought I noticed a little wisp of steam coming out the side of the bonnet. I looked again, and nothing, so thought I had imagined it. A minute or two later I stopped at lights, and something red on the dash caught my attention. I looked down to see the coolant level light and STOP grinning at me . I glanced at the bonnet once again and seen a fair puff of steam coming out of it this time. 'Shite on a stick' I thought, and immediately pulled over and switched off.
Upon opening the bonnet I got a face full of steam belching out from underneath the inlet manifold, but it was so dense I couldn't see the source of the leak. I let it cool down for a moment and opened the reservoir cap, it was empty. I had a 2 litre bottle of Tesco's finest still mineral water in the car, so in that went, and it filled it to the top again. I decided to try and make it to the work carpark which was about 1/2 a mile away, as I was currently blocking one lane of a very busy carraigeway, and getting dogs abuse from the passing traffic. I started up again and the level light stayed off... for the first hundred meters or so certainly! I stopped at lights again and the light came back on, so at this point I made the decision to turn the engine off completely and coast the rest of the way (its 90% downhill anyway ).
I got into the carpark, and this time when I opened the bonnet, I could clearly see the water coming out of a pipe that runs from the cold start device on the injector pump, underneath the inlet manifold, and over to the left where it goes into the head just behind the pump.
While I could see the leak, I couldn't get anywhere near the pipe, and of course I was standing there in a suit, with an important meeting to goto, and no tools with me. So I had to walk away and leave it, and ended up calling out Mr friendly AA man.
A few hours later the hose was bandaged with a temporary repair, and touch wood, seems to be holding for now. The AA guy pointed out that the oil escaping from the manifold pipe above was a likely suspect for causing the rubber to weaken and fail. Doesn't bode well for the other pipes around it, nor those down the back of the engine, which got covered from an oil leak......

Anyway, I'm waffling... I was wondering, does anyone know the name of this pipe so I can order it from Citroen? I've noticed that GSF don't appear to list them, so I guess it's a stealer only part?

Heres a pic of the offending pipe, complete with bandage. Note its currently detached at the left, its normally routed under the manifold pipe, and connects to the front of the head just behind the left of the fuel pump.



Any ideas as to it's name would be much appreciated!

Cheers.

Ciarán.

This post has been edited by Ciaran on March 14, 2007 02:07 pm

I think I have identified the pipe you require as being "Water Pipe 1351R12" priced at £28.58. Ask your dealer spares man to input that number on his computer and have a look at the picture for the engine cooling water system while you look over his shoulder. You may be able to confim my suggestion.

Hi Ciaran.

If it's not Techmanagain's pipe, also get your dealer to bring up RP 1957 42.



Mike.

Hi Ciaran,

Can't help with the part number or name but I agree with Mr A man. Oil and rubber don't mix. The oil breaks down the vulcanising bonds until the rubber goes flaccid and bursts with the pressure. The oil can contaminate the rubber pipe from inside or outside, the effect is the same.

So as well as fixing the rubber hose you need to fix the oil leak or at least keep the oil away from the rubber.

Cheers

noz

Morning Techmanagain, Mike and Noz.

Many thanks for the replies and part numbers. I shall phone Citroen later and bend over. £30 for that!! must be about £1 a centimeter! How do they sleep at night?!

Still, needs must, so I'll try and get one ordered up today.

Regarding the oil getting on to it, its not an oil leak as such, just the perpetual seepage that comes out the big air pipe going into the manifold... not really sure how I can stop that, besides getting a huge metal clamp or something. The AA guy was telling me that he hasn't seen a PSA (or indeed any marque) diesel yet that doesn't push oil out somewhere due to Turbo pressure. Apparently on the latest VWs they've restored to putting the intercooler pipe inside another pipe, and on Fords they now install a metal box / cover thing to catch the oil, as they just can't stop it from coming out apparently! Nice.

Anyway, all that has made me very paranoid about any other pipes in there that may have been exposed to oil. I'll try giving them all a good clean up. My biggest worry though is I did have a leak down the back of the engine at one point, will have to see if I can get down there with a steam cleaner at some point... mind you with access being so great, I'm more likely to burn my face off than clean anything
The pipes that deliver oil to the turbo, are they rubber?

Aha well, at least this has given me something new to think about while lying awake at night, besides strut tops

Cheers folks.

Ciarán.

Hi Ciaran.

Can't resist making the obvious point --- rubber oil feed pipes will tend to be resistant to ----- oil !!!!!!! (I know it was cheap, but then again, it's early)
I'd not rush in with a steam cleaner --it's like water with added wet -- gets everywhere. I'd use a proprietary engine cleaner and rinse it all off with a cold pressure wash.
My diesel man tells me the current VW unit has the loom to the injectors running inside the rocker cover. Just what any sparks man would consider an ideal environment --- alternating hot and cold and permanently oil soaked.

Mike.

Hi Mike,

No no, I did walk right into that one!
I do wonder though, why not make all rubber pipes in the engine compartment oil resistant? Or is it a factor of cost / suitability to the task?

Good point re the steam cleaner, I'll try and get hold of some of that brush on / hose off stuff and give it a good clean up.

Is there any particular reason VW are doing that with the injector loom? There has to be *some* benefit, or is it just another masterful aspect of German engineering that shouldn't be questioned?

Cheers

Ciarán.

This post has been edited by Ciaran on March 15, 2007 10:44 am

Hi Ciaran.

Can't help but think it's all part of the manufacturers' scheme to make things less and less accessible to the owner. If you can't even see the injection stuff, you're even less likely to have a go. In any event -- surprise, surprise --- it's eye wateringly expensive when it breaks.
Just think --- on our pre - electric XMs, if you take the plunger out of the stop solenoid, you can run the car without any electricity at all. It may be behind us, but I think that is real progress !!

Mike.

Well, fun and games at the parts parts dept this morning

The brought up the exploded diagram of the 2.1 cooling system.... the hose in question is nowhere to be found on it. No problem, I produced the part numbers you kind people had provided me with.
One of them wasn't bringing up any results, the other (Mike's one I believe), showed up, however it turned out to be one of the return hoses to the bottom of the coolant reservoir, and not the one I needed.
All credit to the guy, he came out to have a proper look at the hose on the car, and spent a good 30/40 minutes searching through various resources on the computer trying to locate it.
No luck so far. He's going to get someone whos been there a few years, (and has actually dealt with a few XMs), to have a look on Tuesday after the bank holiday. Just hope the repair on the hose stays intact until then!

Failing that, I'm not sure what else to do. I might give my cousin a shout, as he works in a Peugeot service dept. Does anyone know if the 2.1TD found in some 406s etc had the cold start plumbing in question?

As I had some free time today, I took off the inlet air pipe, and cleaned all the oil from around the opening with brake cleaner. I noticed a fair bit of it had got on a couple of other coolant pipes, making them tacky. I cleaned them and the surrounding area thoroughly, put the air pipe back on, and tightened the sealing clip as best I could. Given that it seems to be impossible to seal the pipe tight enough to stop the small seepage of oil being pushed out by turbo pressure, I'm looking at some method of sheathing or protecting the pipes which run below the inlet manifold, not sure what would be suitable, but I'd best find something as I could do without a repeat of this in a few weeks, given the price of some of these pipes.....

Cheers.

Ciarán

This post has been edited by Ciaran on March 17, 2007 06:20 pm

Hi Ciaran.

No question, their parts slides (albeit electronic) are a shambles, not helped of course by the complexity of the pipework, the number of changes and last, but not least, translation issues. I presume you wound up looking in the fuel section (as you would, for a coolant hose ). On my old fashioned 'fiche, they just show the two in fuel, by the pump, the one number I gave you apparently being the dead ringer for your hose. If you are really stuck, I'll give you the other one, in case the numbers and illustrations are transposed. My local dealer always wants to start with the chassis number, which is fair enough, but then we tend to founder on the actual description if it's anything tricky.
If you want to staunch the oil drip, either wrap a thin piece of rubber around the ribs on the spigot, then put the hose on, or use PTFE tape. Either should give you a result.

Regards, Mike.

Hi again Mike.

Thanks for that, would you mind listing the other part number? It can't hurt at this point.
The plot thickens. Earlier this afternoon, the inevitible happened and the hose blew it's temporary repair. Luckily I was only a few miles from home and was able to get back by topping it up every few minutes. Course, getting stuck in a traffic jam and a roundabout of people who never let anyone out didn't help, but thats beside the point.

Anyway, I'm now car-less until I can work out what hose this is. I had a look under the bonnet of the Xantia there, one or two hoses look very similar in diameter, however one of them seems to be an oil breather pipe. Would there be any issue with using this ona temporary basis? Obviously it would be thoroughly cleaned out first...
Am also thinking of garden hose if I can make it fit, or is this unlikely to stand up to the pressure?

Cheers again!

Ciarán.

I've had success with a local hydraulic pipe maker. I just went in and they had every diameter pipe imaginable on big reels - reinforced of course and I just got some off-cuts for pennies.

Just a thought.

This post has been edited by wirdy on March 18, 2007 09:06 pm

Hi Ciaran.

The other number is the same as the first, except it ends in 43 rather then 42. If your dealer still has them to hand, try and get a look at the microfiche slide -- might be clearer than the EPC. As mentioned, both these hoses are listed in the fuel section, rather than cooling. Oil breather hose generally won't have enough strengthening to cope with the pressure of the cooling system. If you are really stuck, have you considered simply by passing the pump device and running a hose between the respective engine outlets ?

Mike.

Hi again folks.

Wirdy: a pipe making place may well turn out to be the solution, if I can find one. I'm going to try ringing the dealer with Mike's other part number tomorrow.

I've just had a realisation Mike, we didn't actually look at the fuel system at all. It may be there, plain as day!! Will ring them first thing.

I spent this afternoon removing the dodgy hose, (which had almost split in two beneath the sticky bandage stuff!), and splicing in a bit of garden hose with some jubilee clamps. Its functional, but I'm far from happy with it.

It works fine, so long as the coolant cap isn't completely tightened, stopping the system from running pressurised. If you do let it pressurise, a small amount of water drips out the bodged hose, so I just leave it loose.
Its ok for tootling down the road, but I certainly don't trust it, and won't be making any long trips in it.
Refitting the hose in the raging blizzard was fun too!

Aha well, thank god its a bank holiday tomorrow and I don't really need to go anywhere, otherwise I'd be really happy

Will see how the saga unfolds tomorrow.

Cheers guys.

Ciarán.

Yellow pages under 'Hydraulic' will give you a start.