Soup Up Your 2.1 & 2.5

I came across this supplier of tuning kits for XM's.
http://www.solware.co.uk/car-performance-c...hp?make=Citroen

Is it worth it?
Will it give additional problems to the ones you already get?
Might it cure some ECU problems?
Will it increase/decrease the life of your car?
Might it even increase the value of you beloved XM?
Happy New Year to you all!!

Shoestring

Would love to try it but far too pricey for me

Colin.P

Most of the 2.1 tds don't have an ECU.

Peter.N.

That would be my concern too, Peter. I didn't think any 2.1s had an ECU actually...

I wish these was an easy way of signifigantly increasing performance on these engines, but I spent the last couple of weeks looking into it, and sadly there isn't....
I hear real gains can be had by remapping the ECUs of HDIs and the like though....

ACTUALLY.... come to think of it, the Xantia with a 2.1 I recently saw in the scrappers, had a bunch of wires on the top of the pump when someone pulled the cover off....

I wonder...

Hi Ciaran

The very late ones do. I bought an engine from a 'p' reg and that was electronic and it is designed as a more or less direct replacement for for the earlier one. The original throttle cable fits into the throttle 'pot' and nearly all the sensors are mounted on the engine, terminating in a multi way plug to the ECU which sits in the box next to the suspension computer. All it apparantly needs is a 12 volt supply, the whole thing is self contained.

The engine was a very low miler, I bought it for a very high milage estate I was running, but in the event never used it, as the car went on to notch up 292k miles not out! then I sold it. I paid £450.00 for the engine and gearbox and sold it on ebay a few years for about £150.00!

Peter.N.

Hi Ciaran, my 1995 (norwegian spec) 2.1 td is equiped with the Lucas "EPIC" fly by wire system. I'm a little wary of re-mapping the ecu or trying for more performance though due to the head gasket problems on these engines - just done mine - don't want to do it again.

I think that the engine itself is a little overstretched as it is - thoughts anyone ?

Best wishes Colin.P

Hi guys,

Cheers for clearing that up, I wasn't sure, but you learn something new every day!

Peter, do you think it would be a big deal to transplant one of the lucas pumps and fuel injection systems, and associated electronics, onto a pre-ECU engine? Or would it be not worth the hassle when the potential power gain is only 20 odd BHP...

My car is a 1995 release, however the engine is of an unknown age, and is of the mechanical Bosch pump type. The engine I know has done circa 80k, which does raise my concerns about head gaskets, as Colin mentioned...

Ciaran, if you could obtain all the components, fitting the system and the ecu would be a doddle - I can list the differences\parts required if you want. My system also has a cat fitted which I do plan to remove once the car has gone through its' norwegian MOT (only every two years over here), this should free up some usable BHP at no cost, I have a complete exhaust system without cat waiting in the shed . I have have a complete mechanical Bosch pump system on the shelves just in case anything should go fatally wrong with the current system

Best wishes Colin.P

Hi Ciaran.

If you haven't already, have a look at the fly by wire version and the mechanical one side by side --- the engine and engine bay look significantly different -- well they did to me, anyway ! I don't know how many of the different things you would have to change, but I suspect it's a bigger job than it first appears. Having briefly owned both versions at the same time, my impression was the electric Lucas version was a slightly better starter, slightly smoother and slightly quicker. I happen to think that was because I was lucky and all the electronic bits were doing what they should. By contrast, I've had several 2.5s (all fly by wire) and had significant smoke issues with most of them, which were I paying to have fixed, would have outweighed any performance or economy benefit from the electronic management.
My choice, without hesitation, was to stick with the Bosch mechanical system. If you have smoke issues at the test, you can cheat and easily turn the pump down externally. If you are stranded without any electrics at all, you can take the solenoid plunger out, push start the engine and drive away. No contest !!! At the end of the day, the 2.1 is never going to be a racing car, so why add potential problems to an otherwise simple system ?

Mike.

Hi Mike,

You're quite right, I really should leave what is a simple and reliable system, alone!
I do have a pechant for playing with things, but in this case I suspect it would be more hassle than its worth really.

Colin, many thanks for offering to list the component differences. A task you would have ended up regretting ever agreeing to, I suspect!

Cheers.

Ciarán.

A few years ago I was foolish enough to buy a Nissan Primeval 2.0TD. Beautiful looking car and very driver friendly. Apart from one thing! It hardly had enough power to pull its own weight from a standstill. It was embarrasingly slow And yes I was that man at the front of the traffic queue. And no I wasn't pulling a caravan! To get around this I bought a Tunit module (as shown in this thread)

I can say with all honesty it totally transformed the car! It was a completely different driving experience. The power which was definitely latent before (it was that latent I couldn't find it anywhere ) suddenly appeared from nowhere, and there was oodles of it! Plus the bonus was it didn't use any more diesel than before.

If anyone is thinking of buying one then take it from me you will be absolutely amazed at the power available. On average you get 20-25% more power and as long as your engine is mechanically sound you will not have any problems. Mine cost approx £350 and I fitted it myself.

There was a problem on the wiring diagram on mine so I rang them and their response was second to none. Within half an hour they had called me back with the correct wiring sequence. The unit re maps the ecu to produce more torque at lower revs which isn't a problem as manufacturers detune diesels in production anyway.

Have a look at the Tunit website its very comprehensive. If you do it you won't be disappointed.

Ciaran

Why do you want to go FROM mechanical injection to electronic?? Or am I understanding you wrong..

The mechanical units, ie: the early ones, of which i have one sitting around are much more economical then the later, and wouldn't a mechanical system be more reliable and better for milage.. I would think so, thats what puts me off the HDi's a little

I think the fuel system on my spare car is Lucas, which comes in at second place, the Bosch system is top notch I think, the same with the 1900 XUD's from Xantia, 306, BX etc, Bosch is the one to have for durability..

Regards
citroenxm

No, you weren't understanding me wrong, I was being silly, and thinking if it was an easy process then it may be worth it for the performance gains that can be had with these remaps etc.
HOWEVER... your comments about the reliability and durability of the mechanical systems are perfectly valid, and I just need to learn to stop fiddling with things which aint broke

Hi all

I have been missing all this, but my observations for what they are worth. I dont think changing the injection system would be all that difficult but its not just a question of the pump, you need all the sensors and the ECU so you would have to find a complete engine.

Personally, I wouldn't do it. The mechanical pump is very reliable, the one on my last car having done nearly 300k. According to the official figures the electronic one is slightly better on fuel than the mechanical one, but I can get a good 50 mpg from mine on a long journey and any problem with the electronics will soon wipe out any savings made.

As for tuning, the 2.1 as has already been mentioned it is prone to head gasket failure, although to be fair, they probably last as long as the engines in some other cars! but increasing the power is likely to have a detrimental effect. If you want a faster one get a 2.5, if you can cope with the mechanics, or if you want to go really fast, a BMW 5 series!

Peter.N.