S1 Vs. S2, .. mainly V6, but the whole range really

Hi,

I'm curious as to how many of you prefer a Series 1 over a Series 2, i've been in a Series 1 twice and it's very different to my Xantia (not just in size and power and poise, but in the feel and styling and character of it, many would say it's more of a real 'Citroen' compared to my Xantia), I've only seen a Series 2, the Series 1 appeals to me more, but the Series 2 has been modernised to be in line with the interior of the xantia, which (in my opinion) is going against the original idea of an big old school citroen (XM) being different to a 'modern' Xantia.

I made some experiments last night, a Series 1 V6 is a couple hundred pounds cheaper to insure than a Series 2 V6, also the Series 1 V6 (24valve) has 200bhp, and the new one has 197bhp. Ok so it's only 3hp, maybe the 60deg V6 is a better engine in that it's a properly designed V6 rather than the older type which was originally designed as a V8 hence the 90deg design.

You guys know more, it's an interesting subject to discuss I think.

Thanks
Deian

I know what you mean.
I really like my S2, however it just doesn't 'do it' for me like my original S1 did when I first saw / drove it.
The S2 is much higher spec, its a top end VSX, wheras the S1 was a lowly 2.0i, however there are a lot of things about it I miss. The looks for starters. I've always preferred the S1 spoiler and grille, and for a while now I've been trying to get an S1 spoiler for the S2. The colour too... I consider that grey (same as David's V6 that he posted pictures of recently), as the best XM colour IMO, and really makes the car stand out, rather than looking like just another Xantia crossed with a whale. That paint wasn't available in S2 as far as I know, though no doubt someone more experienced will confirm / deny that.

The dash..... I do like the S2 dash, you're right that its more modern like a Xantia, and perhaps more asthetic to look at. However, as with the grille, the sharp. angular, crazy S1 dash distinctively screamed Citroen quirkiness, and the S2 one, while perhaps more ergonomic to use, is just a bit of an overgrown Xantia one really.
Theres lots of silly little things too that annoy me.... the cheapening / removal of features, for example. S1 dash backlights lit up when the ignition was turned on, didn't need headlights on, S2 doesn't do this. S1 warned about brake light failures etc, S2 doesn't have it (though that may be a blessing according to some of our esteemed contributers ). S1 window cables rarely break, S2 do regularly.

On the other hand, S2 does have it's upsides. Body coloured mirrors and bumpers, more reliable electrics, things like that.

My girlfriend and I were talking the other night, and she mentioned that she wouldn't mind an XM herself instead of the Xantia.. Its got me thinking, because I find myself yearning to own a grey S1 the same as my original one again.... Though I may be mad looking for an early car, I'm giving serious consideration to sourcing a petrol one (would love V6 but don't know if we can afford it), and giving her my S2 2.1TD to use. It would be nice to have another XM in the family, with the added bonus that I could use both for different applications, plus the fact the S2 would be there to fall back on, should the S1 croak it or suffer age related problems.

I'm looking to replace my 12 year old car with a 15/16 year old one of the same ilk.... is there something wrong with me??

Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked, but a lot of people consider S1 a lot more distinctive and truely Citroen than S2, not to say that the S2 isn't a better car in some respects...

This post has been edited by Ciaran on January 10, 2007 02:51 pm

Buy a series 1.5, you know it makes sense!

Looney dash and the switches are obscured by the 2 spoke steering wheel, how very Citroen. I love mine.

John

Remind me what year the 1.5s were again?

I would like one of those actually. S2 suspension with Mk1 crackpot-ness. I have to say I would have to change the steering wheel to single spoke though....

I have to admit the two spoker is a real pain as it hides the switches at the sides of the console, but that is why it is so great (read mad).

Mine was built in 1992 I think as the ORGA is 6071, I think someone must know the dates.

John

S1.5 will probably be about "M" reg I expect. Don't know what it would be in N.I. About 1994/ early 95 production. Might even have no sunroof - a blessing on the older cars (which have seized up).

Cheers techman.

Since none probably exist here, there's probably no need to worry about what the equivilant Irish numberplate for them will be, likely I'll have to source one from across the water, in which case the UK numberplates are fine ....

/EDIT: Hmm, my '95 S2 was originally an M reg in the UK, when it was registered by Citroen HQ in Slough, no less!), does that mean its one of the very first S2s?



Ciarán.


This post has been edited by Ciaran on January 10, 2007 04:18 pm

Or is it a series 1.5?

Hmmmm..... good question.

It has the S2 grille, spoiler, airbag wheel, and dash...

Maybe it's a 1.85 rather than a 1.5

Hi Deian,

As your interest is mainly the V6, I'll just give my views on that.

Agreed the later model has less power (the manufacturers actually quote 194bhp rather than 197), examination of the torque curve of the ES9J4 engine shows that it is almost flat from 2500rpm to 5500, with a minimum value of 250Nm and a maximum (at 4000 rpm) of 270Nm. Even at 1200rpm it's 230Nm.

This means that the power flow is almost seamless all the way through its usable range and almost certainly gives better acceleration than the older engine. It is only available in UK with an auto box, but that suits the character of the car so well that I for one have no complaints and despite Beachcomber's rather pedantic views, for which he offered no substansive evidence, I believe that Citroen's claim of a top speed of 143mph is as accurate as any other manufacturer's (I claim the record for the longest sentence on the forum!). Fuel consumption is possibly better on the later engine, mine has averaged 24.5mpg over the last two years and 26mpg this year.

As far as maintenance is concerned, the ES9J4 is a bit of a disaster area, the rear bank of plugs is almost ungettatable and the convoluted cam belt is very difficult to change, very expensive if you get it done professionally. Fortunately, my car at 68000miles shows no signs of needing its plugs changed.

Funny thing about cambelts, the first time I ever heard of a belt being used instead of a chain for a vital drive was the first ever BRM Formula 1 car. This was the 1.5 litre 16 cylinder supercharged car a la Raymond Mays. The belt drive was used to operate the fuel injection pump and the magnetos and everybody was aghast at the idea of trusting a belt to do the job. Eighteen years later I had a 2 litre Vauxhall Victor with belt driven camshaft. The manufacturer claimed that after a 100,000 mile run on the test bench it had 0.7% stretch. The reason for them vis a vis chains is quietness and ease of maintenance. Even chains stretch!

I'll concede that the 90degree engine has a rortier exhaust, but one of the reasons I chose my car is quietness. Incidentally, the exhaust systems for the later car are not available from independent suppliers and are very expensive from Citroen.

So there you are, hope that mixture of fact and personal opinion makes sense. Three large sherries at 5 0'clock always make my typing fingers take on a life of their own!

Oh, and my cruise control has stopped working. Bugger!

Derek

thanks for all your views, and to you derek too, an honest pro's and con's, the later v6's are a lot dearer, that is the only negative issue about them today, i will get my 90deg throaty engine soon! oh the fun

S1.5 will probably be about "M" reg I expect. Don't know what it would be in N.I. About 1994/ early 95 production. Might even have no sunroof - a blessing on the older cars (which have seized up).

Ciaren

S1.5 is as early as 1992/3.. I have a K reg 1993 SEi V6 12v

Its a Series 1.5, with BODY COLOUR MIRRORS, and NO electrical gremlins with brake light tests1 etc


GET A S1.5!!! THE BEST

Except the 2 spoke wheel!!

It also has ALL the wood trim, electric arm rest, in fact it has the 24v SPEC, but with cruise control added!!

Why have a car that resembles something else, unfortunally, the S2 dash does NOT do it for me!!

SO - go for anything from Late K 1992 to M reg 1994 for a S1.5

Perfect

regards
citroenxm

I don't suppose that lovely sounding car is for sale, CitroenXM?

Cairen

UNFORTUNALLY NOT!! (UNless I can get a BLACK s1.5 V6 Sei)

My 24v after all its praise HAS LET ME DOWN... BOTH my starter has DIED and my altinator has gone to town too!!!!

Back off the road for repairs, as I also have an awfull oil leack from chain covers to rectify too!!

My S1.5 is too got to let go, she a beauty!!

Thanks for askin anyway

Regards
citroenxm

I KNEW there was another advantage of belt drive - no chain covers to leak!

Bad luck, CitroenXM. Is there anything that can be done about the overheating starter motors? Maybe ducting air from the radiator over that area?

Derek