Hid Conversions., Has anybody done one?

I don't know whether it's just my car, but I have a strange anomoly that has developed since my HID fit.....

If I turn on my headlights BEFORE the ABS self test has completed then the ABS light stays ON and the other 'ABS Out Of Service' message, etc.

Turn them on AFTER ABS time-out and no problems.

Has anyone else encountered this?

I can only guess that a spike goes through the wiring at switch-on that upsets the ABScomputer as it tests itself or the wheel sensors.

This post has been edited by wirdy on January 25, 2007 06:54 pm

wirdy,

No - but I probably don't switch them on that quickly anyway. I'll give it a try and let you know.

Only odd thing I've come across is very infrequently one side doesn't start. If I switch off and on again they both always fire up the second time.

Roy

Completed fitting the cheap ones today and have just got back from my test run. They are noticeably blue, when I first switched them on in my garage the lights themselved looked blue when viewed from a standing position. When I turned into the main road I was sure I'd be flashed but wasn't, the cut off was clearly defined and when I came up behind another car it was noticeable that the top of the beam was well below window height. Going through the twisty bits with a line of cars coming the other way I was able to see my edge of the road clearly. On the back roads I thought they could even be set up a bit higher. There was no reflection from distant road signs as has been reported previously, so it seems there's no upward scatter. As XMexclusive has reported the colour difference between the main and dipped beams was pronounced but I didn't get the dark area between them.

When I got home, I left the car with engine running and lights on at the entrance to my drive and then walked up to the house and looked back. The lights didn't look blue after half an hour's running but the sidelights looked like a couple of smoky yellow candles.

In conclusion, I'm well pleased with them but the colour is so different that they may give problems on the MOT - but there again, why should they?

The kit itself is well made and well packaged, but bears no indication of country of manufacture. The box contains the legend "hid cool, H.I.D. conversion kit". The two page set up manual is reasonably understandable but contains the occasional gem, like "Install the lamp at a good circumstance and let the gear neutral or parking".

So would I recommend the kit? Definitely. But I would recommend the 4500K colour temp rather than the 6000K that I bought. I thought I might buy another one myself (4500K) and convert the main beam as well, but the 3-4 second startup might cause problems and where would I put two more ballast boxes?

Oh, and you also get some splendid Hong Kong stamps!

Cheers, all,

Derek

Hi Derek and All

Glad your lights are working well. From you description I suspect that we may well have ended up with the same type though from different sources. There is no manufacturer identified but mine had the E-mark printed on the bottom left of the lid. I have kept that bit of cardboard just in case I end up with a dispute over compliance. Having tried both 6000k and 4300k I would opt for the latter ones to reduce the blue tinge. I might even try 3000k yellow bulbs if they start to sell them separately as the ballasts are the same for all colours of bulb. On both of mine the small dark area between the outer edge of dip and the start of main beam is most noticable on the road surface when going down into a sharp dip. It is barely present on the flat and dissapears on humps. The reflection/lighting up of road signs is particularly noticable for the white reflective part of the sign. The motorway blue responds a bit but not any other colour. It does very little for green/yellow trunk road signs.
I have tried the switch the headlights on and upset the ABS test on the V6 and it does not cause any problems but that car has a Teves system with no ABS ECU in the ECU black box. The HID ballasts must contain switching electronics to generate the high voltage needed (23kV) and this might just be a problem in close proximity to the XM's ECU's.
I seem to have chosen a slightly different place and fixing for my ballasts. With the headlights out I cleaned up the chassis immediately behind and just below each headlight and fixed them with the double sided tape supplied with the kit. They just fit in below all the wiring etc on both the V6 and the 2.5TD.

Regards

XMexc

Thanks, I hadn't really considered that.

It's more than likely to be the cause.

It causes me no worries - it just made me wonder what caused it.

Hi XMexc,

I discounted the flat area behind the headlamps as a site for the ballasts because I couldn't think of any way of getting to the underside to put the nuts onto the bolts to hold them. This was in addition to the double sided sticky stuff - almost square and about 3mm thick? And doesn't it grip! The bolts that I worried about are entirely superfluous.

I was a bit nervous about the effect of the R.H. ballast on the cruise control control box, it's directly in front of it. When I went out for my test drive I forgot to test the cruise control.

Incidentally I've been so busy fitting the lights that I've done virtually nothing to sort out the cruise control other than to confirm no 12V supply at the relay from the brake switch. So it's still got connections 9 and 10 bridged with fusewire.

Derek

This post has been edited by DerekW on January 26, 2007 05:22 pm

I have just arrived home from Tunbridge Wells via the M25, M3, A303 on a wet road, and half the time I couldn't see a thing! I watched the light pattern and brightness of overtaking vehicles with HID, it is a must have!!!

Peter.N.

Hi Peter,

If you fancy going to the same supplier that I used, he's "hu5585". He does supply 4300K ones but has to order them from the factory with about a seven day delivery.

He has a number of adverts for different cars but they are all the same, I clicked on the 6000K advert for BMW cars. If you follow the order process through you get the choice of bulb colour.

They're now down to a "buy now" price of £82 with free delivery.

Derek

Hi all,

I was in contact with the Dept for Transport today and when I was finished managed to have a word with their vehicle lighting expert to clarify the legality of after-market HID conversions. (At the same time I asked about fitting LED bulbs as tail (they call them position) lights and stop lights.)

It's illegal to fit HID conversions (and to sell them for illegal fitting to vehicles) into a lamp unit designed for a filament bulb. This is because the beam pattern on the lamp is designed for a very specific position of filament and the HID arc will not be in the correct position (resulting in the potential for dazzle).

Similarly, although it's legal to use LED's for stop/tail functions this applies only if the lamp (i.e. the complete light unit - not just the bulb) is "E" marked - i.e approved. It's not legal to fit LED's into non-approved stop, tail or stop/tail light units.

Regulations are here for anyone who's interested (reg 7 for tail (position) and reg 6 for indicator:

http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs.html

It won't necessarily stop them being used of course - but I thought I'd post the information here as it came from a definitive source and there's been quite a bit of discussion about it recently.

Roy

Hi. Mackay1.

Looking at the length of this thread and the enthusiasm it has generated and then at your info., we'll probably have to have a rota for visiting everyone who's in clink ! Oops -- forgot -- prisons all full, so it will be 'community service' for you all.

Mike.

Mike,

I suspect it wouldn't be long before there was a cunning plan for a collective escape. Now how many V6's can members muster for the getaway?

Sorry - must have been watching too much Prison Break. (That would be anything over 30 seconds.)

Roy

Thank you, Mackay1, for your sterling work on obtaining that information on our behalf.

However, I'm a natural sceptic and I perused the UNECE regulations that you supplied and could find no reference to gas discharge bulbs. As your contact was adamant that they are illegal that must mean that a law exists that declares them illegal. Maybe the next time you talk to him you could ask him which law?

Of course he might have been generalising, in which case their illegality or otherwise will rest on their ability to meet the beam pattern which is a legal requirement.

Although the H.I.D. bulb is much longer than an h1 filament bulb, the outer envelope is there (amongst other things) to provide UV protection. The inner bulb which contains the Xenon and colour producing metallic salts is in precisely the same position as the filament on the h1 bulb. In fact the arc struck is shorter than the filament and more closely approaches a point source, this perhaps explains why users seem to get such a clear cutoff.

AS you may gather, I'm struggling to avoid being given one of those ankle bracelet things that they give to real criminals.

Derek

Derek,

You're right - the information source only points to regulation 7 for tail (position) and regulation 6 for indicator lights.

It seems to me that the same general principle applies to both these new technologies - i.e. to use them, the whole lamp fitting must be specially designed and must be approved in order to be legal.

I've looked back at my notes and he (Adrian Burrows, Transport Technical & Standards Section on 0207-944-2105) also pointed me to regulations 98 & 99 at the same url. Although we discussed some other stuff - I think those are the regs you're looking for. (If not I don't have them - but give Adrian a call - he's very approachable.) I haven't looked at any of the regs myself - just posted the info here since he gave me it. There are other things I didn't include in the post. He said if retro-fitting approved HID light units - the car must also have self leveling suspension or self adjusting* headlights AND must be fitted with headlamp washers. (*I think he said self adjusting/leveling.) He didn't say - but I imagine this applies to cars fitted with them as standard too.

No - he wasn't generalising - it's not just down to their ability to meet the MOT beam pattern - he said they're illegal even if they comply with that test - unless of course they meet the other requirements he mentioned.

I'm not up to speed on the technical aspects of the lights but I see what you're getting at. Perhaps the legislation is quite strict because it's a new technology - and as it matures and the manufacturers can provide consistent quality or the industry develops it's own high quality standards and can meet them - we may see the next generation of HID after-market kits are legalised. Lets hope so.

Personally - I'm a bit miffed - particularly with the supplier I bought them from (HIDS4U Ltd) because they assured me they were legal so long as the vehicle had headlamp height adjusters (dashboard type obviously) or self leveling suspension. (No mention of headlamp washers.) This seemed fairly stringent and quite sensible to me at the time and I didn't look into it any further. I wouldn't have bought them had I known though and might have gone down the cituning.com 3 lamp conversion route. I certainly would have done something as I can't cope with the standard XM dipped beam. I wouldn't have been recommending them to others as a legal option had I known what I know now. (Apologies all round guys.)

Having used them for nearly a year now I can say they are a huge safety improvement on the XM - and the car sailed through an MOT. I've never had anyone flash me or had any indication they are dazzling other road users - but I haven't studied them as an approaching driver in another car. I will now go back and check that aspect to satisfy myself they aren't a problem for others - but I think it's unlikely.

Quite - having got used to them - giving them up isn't something I even want to think about.

Roy

Hi,

I'm sure you're all bored with this by now - but I sent an e-mail to HIDS4U Ltd this morning after my call with the D f T guy.

Just received this reply:

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Hi Roy

Thanks for your email

Our stance on the legality of these kits has been clear from the outset.
The legal position in the UK is to say the least grey. There is no UK law
covering Xenons at all. Neither factory fit nor after market. I spoke to
the DOT and they told me this. The say that cars with factory fit Xenons
are allowed as they comply with an EU directive for new cars which requires
washers and self levelling. I have not found any legislation to cover
aftermarket. What we can say is that the current UK MOT does not require
self levelling nor headlight washers but checks for alignment and beam
patterns. Our kits pass the current MOT test with no problems

We sell all our kits for off road use only as a term of our conditions of
sales to protect us in the event that one day the law clearly states its
illegal to retrofit such lights.

We are not breaking any law and you agreed to our sale conditons at the time
of purchase

To be honest I am quite pleased in a way about the article because as a
responsible seller and engineer it annoys me to see the cheap kits flooding
the market that do cause glare. The one that auto express shows is a really
bad case of a H4 kit and buyers should be aware of the glare they cause if
they buy a substandard kit

Your kit in a car with self levelling will not cause glare and I am sure
that you will agree as people dont flash you.

If you need more information please let us know

Regards


Ian

Director

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Not terribly impressed by that - although he does raise some interesting points.

The article referred to is:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/videos/featur...xenon_test.html


Roy

Hi Roy,

Thank you once again for the enormous effort you've put in to get clarification of this complex subject. I wouldn't think anyone would be bored by such an important matter.

There has been considerable discussion on the web about the requirement for self-levelling and headlamp washers vis a vis H.I.D. lights, the general concensus seems to have been that they were a requirement for manufacturers' fits only. I suppose this makes sense, if aftermarket fitments are illegal then of course the requirement wouldn't apply! Either way I was covered as my car has headlamp wash, and wasn't it clever of Citroen to anticipate the invention of H.I.D. and supply self levelling?

I'm afraid that, probably like you and some other members of Club XM Forum, I prefer to drive around at night with illegal lights that don't dazzle oncoming drivers rather than have an accident because of inadequate visibility. If the circumstances ever arise when I have to defend myself, I'll argue that both the light fitments and the bulbs carry E mark approval.

Derek