Hid Conversions., Has anybody done one?

If you read the full article in Auto Express it is scaremongering to put off most people from getting these kits. They called a company to come and fit a kit to their car for about £500!! then took to a garage in a sort of - - let's get this to fail the MOT type of way.

I agree that for a complete car-maintenance numpty these HID's are unsuitable as they need careful setting up after fitting to make sure they don't dazzle. I've found on both my HID-equipped cars that the lights needed adjusting down quite a bit, if you leave then EXACTLY the same alignment as when halogens were fitted then you will be dazzling oncoming drivers.

I've never failed an MOT with mine fittted, however now that a furore has been made about them by the uninformed I guess I may have to put my halogens back in temporarily if the 'man' says no-no next time. That's easy though - a 5 min job

The person who quoted that HID's aftermarlet kits are not e-certified is entirely correct. we all know that HID's should only be fitted as a factory fitment to projector type headlights with a self levelling system and headlamp washer system.

They are not certified for fitment into 'halogen' designed headlamps. The arc that is struck in the HID bulb IS a slightly different shape to a halogen filament - more of a slight crescent rather than a straight line - it is this that can cause a bit of misalignment, but is easy to dial-out using the adjusters on a deserted road on a quiet dark night.

If you're really worried about european regulations and wish to be a law-abiding model citizen then please soldier on with your very poor dipped headlights.

If you're not worried, can adjust your lights yourself and are able to keep your headlight lenses clean then you will not attract any attention - you will have joined the 'enlightened' (excuse the pun) rebels!!

Hi All

I understood that HID's may only be fitted to cars with driving seat headlamp beam adjusters OR with self leveling suspension.
I will keep the boxes as they carry E-Mark e24-021190 certification markings and were supplied by a UK retailer. When I get a chance I will check to see if the E-Mark is also on the ballasts.
At the moment I cannot get the web site to come up so cannot comment on its content.
On the two sets installed I have set the ballasts down on the chassis tight behind the headlights. They are not obvious but they can just be seen by visual examination. If I did another XM I might well bolt them to the metal U beam behind the bumper so they are totally out of sight.
Having driven in the dark with modified lights I will NOT go back to standard XM lights unless I have no choice.

Hi Peter

In driving no difference is noticable in the light on the road between 4300k and 6000k lights. Looking at the front of the cars with the lights on the both types give whiter light than the yellowish side and headlights but the 4300k is just white and the 6000k has a blueish tinge.

Regards

XMexc

Hi All

I note Wirdys comment about the need to set the HID beams lower. Before I made a permanent installation I set the car up on level ground facing a blank wall and marked the halogen bulb cut off lines. I then tried a number of tests with spare headlamps fitted with the HID bulbs. To start with the beam was a little high because the HID bulbs did not seat correctly in the bulb holders even though I thought they had. I would not recommend fitting HID bulbs to an XM headlight with the headlight insitu (my experience is with the limited space behind the headlight in 2.5TD and V6 auto). It is difficult enough to fit them properly in a removed headlight where you have good access. I then removed the plastic lense and the beam went high so I put a halogen back in and it dropped the beam about halfway back. I then removed the bulb front cover and with halogen the beam cut off was poor with the beam going even higher. I put the HID back in with the bulb cap still missing and the was no beam cut off.
I then put the original headlamps back in with HID's fitted and the beam cut off was identical to that with Halogen bulbs without any adjustment.
Over the next week or so I will try to get a MOT tester to check the lights on at least one of the cars for MOT compliance.

Regards

XMexc

Hi PeterN et All,

Missed this post until tonight.

I fitted HID's to my 2.5TD last March and was really impressed with them.

As it happens - the ones I bought were Pilot HIDs too. They were highly recommended by the firm I bought them from and I have been delighted with them.

There's hardly any room under the bonnet of the 2.5TD and I spent a while looking for a good mounting point for the ballasts - which have relatively short leads. I didn't want to block access to the already hard to reach headlamp bulbs and other electrics under the slam panel and I wanted to avoid having to drill into the bodywork if at all possible.

Below is an extract from an article I wrote in the Citroen Car Club magazine including a couple of photos.

I don't think the supplier sell the Pilot HID kit any longer - but perhaps those thinking of buying the very cheap kits on eBay might like to look at the comments on their web site www.hids4u.co.uk. At least 2 satisfied Club-XM members using the Pilot HID kit on the XM may help those deciding which to go for. I'd certainly have no hesitation in buying them again (c/w 6000K lamps).

It's interesting to see how much the price has dropped in 10 months.








**********************Article********************

I live in a rural area and the poor dip beam on the XM was so bad I was already considering the six headlamp conversion from Cituning.

I had no idea that HID lamps could be fitted to the existing XM headlights and was delighted that Julian Marsh had found such an effective solution.

After spending some time on the web I decided to purchase a Pilot HID Conversion Kit from HIDS4U in Leeds (http://www.hids4u.co.uk). The full cost of this kit, including next day delivery, was £235. It came with a 2 year warranty and a 7 day money back offer.

I was very impressed with the quality of the kit - particularly the waterproof connectors - and the ease of fitting. The only modification I had to make to the XM was to drill a 22mm hole in the centre of each of the headlamp screw covers using a hole saw.

The kit comprises the following for each of the dipped beam lights. An HID bulb in a ceramic holder which passes through the 22mm hole (cover removed) and fits in exactly the same way as the standard H1 bulb, although the bulb is slightly longer and thicker and must therefore be inserted carefully and dead square. The bulb holder is hard wired and the cables fitted with a grommet to seal the 22mm hole in the cover. Once the cables pass out of the grommet they're fitted with a connector. There's a corresponding connector on the leads fitted to the ballast (box of tricks) for each lamp. Each ballast is a waterproof alloy box approx 10.5cm x 8cm x 3cm and comes with a mounting bracket and fixings. There's a second twin lead connected to each ballast (again split with waterproof connections) that passes back through the grommet (and cover) and the cables are terminated with male spade connectors. These connect to the positive feed wire that originally connected to the H1 bulb and the original earth wire that must be removed from the spade on the metal mounting plate on the back of the headlamp (next to the bulb retaining clip).

The kit took around 3 hours to fit, but at least half this time was spent deciding where and how to mount the ballasts and run the cables. The cables are relatively short and I was advised not to extend those between the bulb holder and ballast. My biggest problem was finding a suitable place to mount the ballasts as there's virtually no room under the bonnet of my series 2 2.5TD. I decided to enlarge one of the holes on the ballast mounting plates and fix them to the top bolt on the existing car horn brackets. I had to remove the XM's nose cone to access these brackets but it meant there was no need to drill any holes in the bodywork. The cables were then easily fed along the inside edge of each headlight and routed along the existing wiring harness with the cable ties supplied.

I'm delighted with the improvement to night driving and am particularly impressed by the distance at which road signs and other reflective objects can be seen when using dipped beam.

***************End of Article********************


Roy

This post has been edited by mackay1 on January 20, 2007 12:53 am

Hi mackay1

Did you need to do any beam realigning after fitting the HIDs?
Has you car had an MOT since fitting, if so any comments on the lights?

Regards

XMexc

Hi XMexc,

I did quite a bit of fiddling with the beam after fitting. I hadn't bothered to adjust the lights before hand as I'd only had the car about 5-6 weeks and knew the lights were hopeless anyway.

I left the diffusers and everything except the bulbs as standard.

I've never had anyone flash me and the lights are fantastic.

The main beam looked poor after they were fitted so I got H1 Osram Silverstar 50% bulbs for them from Autobulbs Direct (£18.45 per pair inc P&P). These were noticeably better - but still far short of the HIDs of course.

The car was MOT'd without a problem in July - never mentioned the lights.

Mounting the ballasts completely out of sight on the horn brackets may help if the MOT stations are going to be on the look out for these (which I very much doubt).

One thing I do notice which I found odd (but have got used to) when on main beam is a slight gap between the really intense pattern of the main beam and the intense light of the dip. This is difficult to explain - but there's a less intense band below the main beam pattern and above the dip. In some ways the dip could do with being raised up just a little - but this can't be done independently of the main beam and they are set correctly.

The HID dip beam is really quite different. As I have mine set the visible beam pattern on the road is no more than I would have expected from any good dipped headlights. The difference however is the considerable area beyond that which the HIDs seem to illuminate very subtly - particularly noticeable on the verges on either side of the road and on any reflective object (white lines, cats eyes, road signs, etc) in the very far distance (i.e. the sort of distance you'd only expect main beam to pick up). I particularly notice the raised beam pattern on the nearside illuminates roadsigns brilliantly - again at main beam distance. All of this without apparently dazzling oncoming vehicles and without breaching the MOT light test.

The safety improvements in fitting these are really very considerable and like others have mentioned I'd never do without them in an XM now.

I've never driven a car with OE Xenon headlights so I can't make a comparison.

I might try some nocturnal photography but I doubt I'm competent enough with the camera to produce anything that might help illustrate the benefits.

Hope that helps.

Roy

Hi mackay1

Thanks Roy for that comprehensive summary. It is very helpful and confirms all the benifits I am seeing from my HIDs. I raised the issue of hidden ballasts as the MOT rules are precise and do not allow an examiner to dissassemble the car to conduct any part of the test.

Regards

John

Re: MOT and hiding the ballasts - any vehicle tester worth his salt will notice the characteristic striking of the HID arc and the 2-3 secs of ramped light output. I'm guessing this must also have been a topic of debate / clarification within the MOT testing community at some time recently.

I'm sure we've all come across pedantic testers in the past - it'll be these individuals who may fail you, however a well-maintained vehicle will always be apparent to these testers and I always ensure I've been underneath with an oily rag during the week before MOT time. Even simple things like making sure the car is clean inside & out, as well as wiper blades and light bulbs being ok, gives a good first impression.

I must admit I do some pretty sad things like brush coating all my brake / hyd pipes with light grease using an old toothbrush, and using aircraft corrosion inhibitor on everythng underneath the car every few months. That's the benefit of being in charge of a motor club and having 24hr access to a excellent workshop with two ramps.

If my HIDs do ever get failed, it's no real hardship for me - for my other car I have had to refit the cat convertor for the MOT - so 5 mins under the bonnet putting back halogen bulbs is a comparitively minor inconvenience!

This post has been edited by wirdy on January 20, 2007 02:46 pm

Hi Wirdy,

Yep - I was forgetting they'd switch them on - doh!

Can you start a branch near me please? Which club is it and how do you manage to offer those facilities? Bentley? RR? Aston Martin?

Roy

I normally 'warm' them up on the way to the MOT though makes the start-up less noticeable.

You'd have to sign up to wear a blue uniform & possibly be sent to serve 'Her Majesty' in some not-very-nice places at the moment

This post has been edited by wirdy on January 20, 2007 04:08 pm

Hi Wirdy

The MOT tester is not allowed to assume, he must see a prescribed fault with his own eyes. The bulbs are hidden by the bulb cap in the lamp and the light up sequence is not conclusive visual evidence of HID's.
I became aware of this fine definition when the V6 failed on pitted rear brake disks visible only through the alloy wheel spokes. While talking over the failure he mentioned that had the car been fitted with standard XM steel wheels it would have passed because the disks would not have been examinable and he was not permitted to remove any components to examine for faults. I changed the disks not the wheels for the retest.

Regards

XMexc

XMexc - yes, but I'm just thinking that common sense will dictate and wires coming out of the back of your headlights are a good giveaway!

Remember the bonnet will be opened as part of the test as well.

As it happens, I can clearly see the insulated wire (that runs along the HID bulb) through the front of my headlights when viewed from 45 degrees.

ATEOTD - they know that we know that they know.

i've now fitted my set and wow what a difference they make. i just wish i had done this a few winters earlier - the cost is without doubt well worth it.

to get easy access i removed the complete headlight having removed the scuttle and bumper which only takes a couple of minutes. this gave me good access to the wires and enabled me to fix the ballast in the same place as the horns on either side. the wires are long enough and it is completely out of site.

as to whether at mot they notice the ballast, its a bit academic as there is absolutely no doubting the very white dipped lamp versus the yellow main.

My cheap ones arrived from Hong Kong today, five days after ordering and four days after I was advised they had been despatched. Not bad.

They look OK, good quality connections etc. but I await the proof of the pudding.

Had difficulty in finding suitable places for the ballasts within the cable length, the late V6 seems to have even less space than other XMs. Eventually decided that the only option was similar to Wirdy's although I had to move the Bitron thingy further along the front cover of the computer box to make room for the offside one. That side is now finished, tackling the near side one tomorrow. Once again, as Wirdy's, it looks as if it'll have to be bolted to the battery box.

Derek

Let us know how you get on once they're all set up.

You won't be disappointed. What colour temp did you go for and what was the brand? I'm sure your purchase may be of interest to other owners, especiallly since your kit cracks the £100 barrier by quite a margin.

P.S - Having seen your location I know why you really need HID's!!....I was at Coningsby for many years and know the roads in your area very well, especially the bumpiest road in the country....Gypsey Bridge to Frithville - I didn't have the XM then, but I bet it's a lot smoother in one.

This post has been edited by wirdy on January 24, 2007 11:06 pm