Xmv6si Series 1 1990, Suddenly stater motor wont turn over

Hi all,

MOT booked for today 1st Dec went out yesterday to check the car over after 3 weeks of the car standing parked up. The car didnt seem keen to start so sprayed some WD 40 on leads coil etc; car started ran it over for a bit moved it to sweep away some leaves and stopped it. Went to start it again and nothing. Lights on info board went out and came on again and a big click from the passenger side fusebox/relays area. Tried lots of things like charging the battery and checking terminals but no dice it's just like when the battery is flat starter motor clicks and nothing else. It is a really good battery and indicates that it is fully charged. Can anyone give some pointers to the problem.

Many thanks,

Paul
paulxmski

Hi Paul.

Have you checked the cable connections at the other end from the battery ? Have you checked that the battery posts and the inside of the clamps are clean and not corroded ? Have you checked that the cables are sound where they go into the battery post clamps ?

Mike.

Hi Mike,

Thanks a lot for the reply. I have previously had problems with the positive terminal it has become distorted and would not grip around the battery post I have wrapped copper wire thick mains copper wire around terminal and tightened on that, but the terminal has a number of leads running into it and I haven't been able to find a replacement. I understand that Citroen only sell the complete cable to the multiplug under the HLM tank which apparently is also a source of problems, and they charge a lot of money for this cable. The assembly was tight by the time I finished with it last night but I'm not sure how well attached the
assorted ancillary leads are.

Hi Paul

Are you absolubtly certain that the battery is good? A full charge indication only tells you that the voltage has reached the fully charged level, but it could do that with 90% of the plate material missing. You need to test it on a starting load 2-300 amps. The easiest way is to try it on another vehicle or see if yours will jump start from another vehicle.

If you have a meter available, connect it across the battery and engage the starter, if the starter is not turning and the battery is OK it will still read about 12 volts, if the battery is the problem it wil drop 6 volts or less. If it still reads 12v connect your meter to the large terminal on the starter, engage the starter again, if you have around 12v the starter is faulty, if you have a low voltage there is a poor connection somewhere.

Peter.N.

Hi Paulxmski

Ive had THREE of these! And YES all three have give me starter problems. HOWEVER, my third 12v I hard wired the solinoid to the Cigarette lighter unit through a switch, and now I turn the key, then press the button and its NEVER failed on me.

Starter problems are common on the 90deg V6, easyest way to remove is to strip front end, ie: Front end off completely, then remove Rad, and if Air con is Flast, remove air con rad too, but its not too bad with it in place.

I had to do my first V6 twice...

PETER N WROTE: "If it still reads 12v connect your meter to the large terminal on the starter, engage the starter again, if you have around 12v the starter is faulty, if you have a low voltage there is a poor connection somewhere."

Peter, A little hard to connect tester to large terminal, its completely beried (?) behind the front bank of cylinders, and front exhaust downpipe...

My guess is, starter, and this is simply down to the exessive heat generated by this huge lump of a unit which I think shortens starter life..

Regards
citroenxm

Are you sure that the culprit isn't a faulty ignition switch. Two of my previous XM's have suffered this problem. To test, take a wire from the positive battery terminal and 'spark it' on the starter solenoid feed terminal with the ignition on (car in neutral/park of course). If the starter now cranks over then it is most probably your ignition switch at fault. I have found the best cure to be a fairly heavy duty remote button fed from the ignition-on live and scotch-locked into the switch to solenoid feed wire. Turn on ignition, push button--hopefully sorted.

Hi RossPA,

EXACTLY what I have said in my first paragraph, I've done a hard wire through a push button switch on my current V6

Regards
citroenxm

Sorry, my ignorance again. I have only ever had 2.1 tds and you can get to the starter quite easily on those.

Peter.N.

Hi PeterN

Yeah a SUPER design as far as routine service items go - all on the front, however, the dreaded exhaust manifold removal becomes a pain..

Regards
citroenxm

Thanks everybody for the reply.

Yes the battery is absolutely perfect. The starter has however always been slow on the first turn of the key I put it down to the size of the lump. After that it frees up and goes for quite a while. It turned over really well for the first start then after I stopped it and tried to start it again it just clicked loudly in the fusebox area.

I decided not to keep turning it over and flatten the battery but took it out and charged it over night. It is a Motorquip battery with 4yrs guarantee of which it has had three. It has a signal color viewer on top to guage the state of the battery it was dull green when I took it out but came up bright after charging it overnight

(is there a relay in the fusebox area because I have had trouble with relays on these cars before?)

The lights on the info panels and radio go out although the other lights stay on. I have looked at the possibility of getting to the starter motor but as I don't have a low type jack, the car has settled down now and it is on an open parking bay with woodland backing on to it with lots of leaf and tree debri. I think it is beyond me at the moment.

Incidentally I should have mentioned that some badnix have gained access to the car and got the ignition on, but couldn't get passed the immobiliser. I first noticed this when one of the door locks whirred when I unlocked the car. After I input the code the red and green lights came on together, and the immobiliser bleeped at me after I input the correct code. There was no other evidence of ingress, and no damage done so they were being careful. I don't know why because the usual thing that happens is they drive the cars they steal to one of several local pedestrian underpasses and torch them. The ignition switch connection sounds like a possible culprit on that basis although I have not looked at that yet.
Thanks again really helpful and anymore ideas would be greatly appreciated.

This post has been edited by paulxmski on December 06, 2006 06:44 am

Hi everybody,
I wanted to check out the reason why the mainboard under the glovebox was doing such a heavy click when the car fails to turn over. Immediately noticed the glovebox light was sitting in the glovebox when I unlocked and opened it. I haven't been in there for sometime so I was suspicious straight away, however once I had removed the box snapping off the left catch in the process duh I managed to get a look at the mainboard. I saw that it is attached to a bar by two plastic lugs and looks like it should push off the bar and then swing down, but I wasn't able to prise it off? Anyone have experience of doing this?

By reading the parts list I found that one of the relays that works the fog lights is the wrong type and so the front fogs don't come on. I don't seem to be able to get accurate information on which relays operate from the mainboard and their specific type?

The green boxes look the same and have the same little diagram on them but some have 395, 0 and others 256, er something on the side stencilled/melted into the plastic. Can anyone tell me what is the significance of this? Does it indicate a different rating.

Another green box has a white s stencilled in a box what does this mean? Are there any photographs or diagrams of the mainboard with the relay types detailed? Also those hanging on the control box neither H or R discuss this.

Anyone interested in 2 white V6 S1s' an SEI & SI one with nice black leather/wood interior both SORN now no MOT's etc, serious offers please.

Thanks muchly.

Old Balonium 999

Hi Paulxmski

where are you located??

Regards
citroenxm

V[QUOTE]V
If the information from my S1 chart is of use on your model, you will find this useful:-

The 3 relays across the front are , from L to R) Lights-on bleeper; Centre is Flasher; RH is Rear screen Wiper delay,
At the back are 9 relay spaces. Nearest LH one is Rear Fog; to its right is Sun Roof relay; RH one is not used.
Across the middle are;- RH - Heated rear window; Centre-A/C compressor cut off; Centre RH is Front screen wiper relay.
Last row :- LH is Front Window,; Centre is A/C; RH is Front Fog lamps.

Hope this is some help.

Thanks techmanagain,
that is very useful in that it seems to rule out the mainboard as a source of the problem, although the front fogs haven't worked for a while and the bulbs seem ok so I know the location of the relay for that now. Anyone know the line up on the ECU box.

There is a purple one with a hanger on it then a green one with no hanger which had a burnt leg on it which I replaced but I don't think I put the right relay on because on connection the rev counter shoots over to the max stop and only goes down when the battery is disconnected. Afterwards provided the relay isn't removed it is ok.

Hi again,
After extensive tests it does seem that the starter motor is the reason for the fault. As citroenxm has stated there is quite a bit of work to get at the starter motor on the XMV6. I asked a Citroen specialist in Newport Pagnell about cost of doing the job and he said expensive - not really worth it in relation to the value of the car especially since it needs a steering pinion valve and the ABS sorting. I am considering leaving it until the spring but with the car being parked in the open and nearly under trees it could be that it will never go again if I do this. Could you nice guys answer me some questions about doing the job like:

Is it necessary to take all the rads out if dismantling from the front?

would it be necessary to jack up the car to take off the front exhaust manifold and would I need a new manifold gasket?

Does any company actually recondition starter motors or is it an exchange job?

Thanks muchly,

Paul xmski

V6