Auto-adaptive Gearbox

[XM v6 sadist]

Hi all

After all the general moaning about the life expectancy on the HP18 auto box on XMs I'm afraid to say that the auto-adaptive box doesn't seem any better. My 24v has just past 83K and without any warning the autobox has expired. The really funny thing is that people say unreliable XM's etc but this gearbox goes mainly into Mercs and Beemers. My two previous HP18 auto V6's were fine!

Asking around the local autobox specialists, nobody would touch it or they gave me the "go away" quotes. Think lottery wins. The only people who were interested were BL Autos in Wellyn. These guys do alot of citroen XM work, and generally citroen V6s. V6 cambelts etc.... They actually own two SMs so they know the marque. The car is off on the transporter to them next Monday.

Hopefully the new gearbox will last for a decent amount of time this time, but I think that it's going to have a few more oil changes in the future!

Cheers

Tony

No transmission XM "00 24v

[DerekW]

Hi Tony,

Bad luck. How did it fail?

Derek

[XM v6 sadist]

Hi Derek

Just driving along. It start making a whining noise and within a couple of minutes stopped selecting gears. Not prior indication of not selecting properly or rough shifts.

My garage drained the oil and said that it was a mess. I think that this shows it could have done with some previous changes. It will get them with the new box.

Cheers

Tony

[XM v6 sadist]

Hi All

I've got my new recon auto adaptive gearbox in the V6. The guys at BL Autos in Wellwyn seem to have done a great job. They certain seem to know their XM stuff and differently from most garages, actually seem to want to work on them.

Anyway after a fill up with new LHM and a new radiator the car seems to be driving fanastically.

Hopefully I'll now get a few more years out of it.

Cheers

Tony

[DerekW]

That's good news, Tony.

How do you change the oil?

Derek

[citroenxm]

XM V6 sadist,


So what makes then so vunreable in a transverse application??

Didn't realise it went into german cars, isn't it a PSA design and develop??

Were is this Wellwyn place you speak of??

Regards
citroenxm

[Mark Bodsworth]

Yes BL have helped me out a lot of late - nice guys as well
Mark

[onthecut]

Hi Citroenxm.

I've wondered the same thing myself. I do know of another couple of makes that share a common engine, where one blows up and one doesn't. In the end, they found that the air circulation under the bonnet was less effective at cooling in the unreliable one and the higher temperatures were the problem. Presumably if 'our' box is also found in Beemers and Mercs, it must have some substantial differences, as it will be driving a propshaft rather than the diff fairly directly and will be in a tunnel rather than under the bonnet ? I think the key to any auto box is regular fluid changes.

Mike.

[DerekW]

The box is a ZF design made by Bosch. A good gearbox designer and a good manufacturer.

With reference to the continuing recommendations for regular fluid changes, that's all very well but I repeat the question I've asked several times on different forums - how?

The auto adaptive box is "sealed for life " and no provisions are made to change the oil or even to check the level.

One chap said "contrary to popular opinion, it is possible to change the oil.". In response to my query "How?" I got zilch.

Derek

[onthecut]

Hi Derek.

One method I have heard mooted is to tap into the gearbox oil cooler flow and return. The idea being, with the engine running, to feed the return with new fluid while letting the output pipe pump into a suitable container. When it is plainly new, uncontaminated fluid emerging -- job done. Providing there has been no interruption in the supply of the replacement fluid, there should be no net change in overall gearbox content.
I do stress I have never tried this myself, or have any idea if it's practical on the XM, but the theory sounds good.

Mike.

[DerekW]

Cor, thank you Mike, I'll have to think about that one.

Derek

[XM v6 sadist]

Hi Derek

As I understand it to change the oil in the auto-adaptive box you jack the car up level. Then you undo the drain plate on the bottom of the box. The important part is the filling port. A Xantia V6 owner that I contacted had this advice

"The level plug is right at the back of the box and you will need to be right under the car to find it. The idea is that you fill the with the same amount that came out then run the engine, take the box through all the gears a couple of times then remove the plug and with the engine running and box in neutral you top up until oil starts to pour out of the hole then refit the plug."

Not very technical but seems to be the correct thing to do. Alternatively contact Ian at BL Autos Wellwyn-Garden-City and I'm sure that they could advise.

This box is fitted to front wheel drive Mercs - V class, A class etc... and I think that it sometimes has a good life expectancy. I've seem Xantia V6's with almost 200K on. So maybe I was unlucky for mine to go at 83k? It ceraintly doesn't seem to have the same overheating problems as the previous auto boxes. However if I ever get another I'll be changing the oil occasionally.

Cheers

Tony

[DerekW]

I'm a bit nervous about these suggested methods of changing the oil, seems to me there's a strong chance of doing more damage than if you follow the manufacturer's recommendation and leave well alone.

Generally my gearboxes have a fairly easy life, gentle acceleration up to my normal cruising speed with changes taking place between 2 and 3000 RPM.

However, you've all heard of "the oldest swinger in town" and I have to admit to being a big kid at heart and occasionally I can't resist the temptation to show off. I suppose it's a subconcious reaction to Jeremy Clarkson and his contemptuous comments about XMs ("What does 'Car of the Year' mean? Look at some of the winners - the XM .....") but occasionally I'm in line behind a vehicle, waiting for a suitable opportunity to overtake - and I don't need that much space - when a Beemer or an Audi or similar arrives on my tail and dodges from side to side looking to overtake me, and probably the vehicle in front as well. You can almost read his mind - doddering old fool in one of those ghastly cars that Jeremy hates.

What he doesn't realise is that if he has room to overtake me, I certainly have room to overtake the guy in front. And when that appears I have been known to kick down from top to second and leave him in the distance.

I'm hoping that the gearbox reserves are sufficient to allow an occasional flamboyant gesture like this!

Derek

This post has been edited by DerekW on January 03, 2007 07:05 pm

[XM v6 sadist]

Hi Derek

Our XM has had a fairly non-strenous life too. My wife drives "her" XM mostly and hardly ever uses kickdown. It's only me that occasionally used to give it some welly (aways with a smirk since it is a bit of a Q car as you suggested).

I think that if I was in your situation I'd get the gearbox oil changed. Maybe go to an auto transmission specialist to do it or if you aren't too far from Wellwyn-Garden-City then I'd go to BL Auto's. It really isn't too much hassle compared to having a new gearbox, believe me.

Cheers

Tony

[DerekW]

Tony, there's much merit in your suggestion and I will probably follow your advice. Problem will be finding an auto specialist in Lincolnshire.

Might be worthwhile trying to get a sample of the oil first.

Derek