Tracking, What is the correct tracking for an XM?

Hi All

If I can pick up on some of Dereks points and reinforce them. Rusting of steel requires both air and water to cause rusting. If you treat a piece of steel then any pin hole/damage to the coating causes accelerated localised rusting. For example I have known poor galvanising to suffer pin hole corrosion that then lead to early fatigue failure of a component that had no previous failure history untreated. So have a care that any treatment is competent and thorough. Citroen used a thin rubber coating to part of the top of the XM strut head and to the underside of the Xantia strut head. The rusting I have seen starts at the edges of the rubber and where this coating cracks and debonds from the steel. I have thoughts on the cause of the debonding on the top of the XM strut head. I suspect that it is due to mill scale left on the metal when it is pressed to shape. As the rubber on the strut head debonds capillary action sucks air and water in to accelerate the rustig process. One of my cars has a rusted strut head with the rubber removed some 2 years ago. The steel remains sound. I am satisfied that the rusting has not worsened since the rubber was removed.
Where next then?
I am considering taking a spare set of strut heads in good condition and carefully removing the thin top rubber. Then treat the steel with Hammerite after a good clean up.

Regards

XMexc

Hi Mike

I accept your point entirely about oil and rubber not mixing and also about water displacing oil, but oil will protect from rusting provided it isn't displaced as it excludes oxygen from the metal. I also agree with your thought about Waxoil, although its very good for making sure you can get the bolts undone next time! But in the case of the strut tops it shouldnt have any water in contact with it, at least on the top, and it will creep into the inaccesable areas. I used to preserve my cars in the '50s and '60s by pouring oil inside the doors, sills and any other enclosed areas, and guess what, it stopped them going rusty.

The rubber wont rot suddenly or immediatly, just look at the bottom engine mounting, and anyway I would far sooner have the rubber rot than a strut through the bonnet! Not being as energetic as I used to be I try to find the quickest and easiest solution for most problems and it only took me a couple of minutes and probably less than 100 calories to squirt some oil on my strut tops.

Peter.N.

So waxoyl down the strut tops then?

Speaking of delaminated rubber in Xantia strut tops, I found this in ours the other day


The rubber seemed a bit peely along the edges, so I poked it a bit and most of the rubber came away, to reveal that
The metal actually lost a large chunk of it's thickness, as bits of it were stuck to the rubber. Shocking.

I went straight to the scrappers that afternoon to sort out a replacement, and ended up finding a nice intact Xantia Activa. Found a late Mk2 Xant as well, and out of all the cars in the yard, it's tops seem the best.
There were a few Mk1's with struts in shocking condition. On one of them, I prodded the rubber dome in the engine bay, and my finger went straight through with a crunch!

Needless to say there were no XMs there as usual, but I'm happy to report that the struts on my car seem very good. I'm almost thinking they look like they've been replaced before....

This post has been edited by Ciaran on December 04, 2006 12:48 am

Just a quick diversion back to the tracking discussion...

When they checked mine they found it too toed-out. With the rack centered, the drivers side was spot on and the passenger side 1.5mm toed-out. I asked what the '0' position was in terms of actual toe-out/in but the guy did not know. He only knew that his chart said that it should be x and y measurements on the various readings to be correct.

I haven't taken it on a proper run to check for any difference properly, but the steering did feel tighter when driving it home. I will see how the tyre ware goes now.

Hi Rowanmoor.

How exactly did they establish the rack was centred ?

Mike.

Hi all
I have just had mine done as I had wear to the outer edges of my tyres.It was done on a computerised machine with the car wheels displayed on a screen.I received a printout showing a before and after scenario.
To be honest it looks as though they have hardly did anything BUT the steering wheel is now centred and the wear appears to have stopped as I still have the knobbles on the new tyres where the old tyres were wearing.
The steer ahead reading is now 0.00 anything else would presumably mean it pulling to either side.
What I don't know is if the car has been set up to Citroen settings or to just get the reading to 0.00...or maybe this is the best way as components wear etc to adjust it to get it going straight now.
I can send the sheet if anybody wants to see it.
I made it back from my trip 2,200 miles and saw maybe 10 XM's,interestingly over there(France)the Mk1 seems to be predominant.
Regards Rob

All they can go on is the steering wheel (and presumably if it was too far out then other things would not align properly). I have no reason to think the steering wheel has ever been removed or turned in relation to the rest of the steering - but cannot be 100% certain of course.

Just out of interest, how much are these places charging for the tracking with the computerised systems? Everyone I have been to in the past has just had the laser systems.

Hi. Rowanmoor.

I was curious about the centreing as I have had makes in the past where there has been provision to accurately centre the rack or box by means of inserting a pin into a locating aperture. When I last had a fiddle with the tracking on my XM, I had a gander at the book, but no mention of any such provision. Seems odd to me for such an important aspect of the car.

MIke.

I take my XM to my regular tyre dealer who has a laser checker. He charges me about £30 and I have never had erratic tyre wear since. What he does I do not know, but he always gives a free recheck after 6 months and never charges for that if there is no action needed. After any steering change (ball joints, suspension bushes, etc) I have it rechecked, also.
There is good service out there - you just have to find it!

The place I go to does the laser checking for £20 if it needs adjusting and does not charge if no adjustment required.

I just wondered if the computer ones tended to be more expensive.

I fitted a new steering rack to my last XM and of course, once you have disconnected everthing its difficult to know where to start. The only way I could think of finding the straight ahead position was to turn the steering wheel from lock to lock, without the track rods connected, and find the halfway position and fit the steering wheel or the coupling, with the wheel straight ahead, at that point, which I did, and it worked out allright.

Peter.N.

Hi all
My normal garage charge £20 for the laser checking...but the computerised one was £40!!!I only had it done as I had had the tyres fitted and it was easiest!
Regards Rob

This has been an interesting read and generally the toe in versus toe out argument is a result of the changing geometry when under power.
Front wheel drive cars have a tendancy to pull the leading edge of the wheel in when under power so the rule of thumb is to set to 0 degrees or slight toe out to compensate.
Rear wheel drive cars usually have the wheels set at toe in to counteract the tendancy for the wheels to try and toe out as the dual effect of camber and castor angles come into play.
This is then all modified of course as the car rolls and the various angles directly related to the steering take effect. A wonderful geometrical exercise.
If you have any interest in this lot add in the Ackerman Angles too!

This angle is the reason why having the straight ahead position set accurately is vital.

The issue with Citroens is related to the height setting - for garages who do not understand the importance of this dimension when checking the geometry and the effect it has. It is the reason why height setting is so critical and detailed in the manual.

When all of this is said and done. your driving style is likely to have far more impact on tyre wear than a mm one way or the other. Unless you do constant motorway driving and never go round corners!
Consider tyre wear in Milton Keynes and all those roundabouts
Cheers all Robin

This post has been edited by Robin on December 07, 2006 02:18 pm

Hi Robin

I thought the idea of having hydraulic suspension was so you could take the straight line over the roundabouts and avoid wear on the edges of the tyres.

Regards

XMexc