Tracking, What is the correct tracking for an XM?

Sorry! you'r quite right. Must be old age, Iv'e been experimenting with a roll of selotape on the desk! I am thinking of the wheels pushing the road backwards, which of course means they are pulling forward. That means most of what I have said on the subject is rubbish The tendency would be then for the wheels to tow in on acceleration and out on breaking.

Apologies to all concerned

Peter.N.

Peter, it takes a gentleman to admit .......

John, the window is smooth as silk, thank you. I'm about to go hunting for the references, hope to post later.

Derek

Well, I am going in tomorrow for them to check the tracking and will see what it is currently set to and get them to adjust it. Whatever it is currently on I will get them to toe it in a bit, but I will see what they say it should be etc.

Hi Xmexc, and anyone else interested in the saga of the rusty strut tops.

Go and have a look at

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/view...ghlight=speared

It's mostly Xantia oriented but the same rules apply to our XMs. There are nine pages of fascinating stuff there , including some horrifying pictures. Incidentally, I credited Mandrake with this thread, he added to it but the originator was Andmcit (Andrew). Credit where credit's due.

Take care,
Derek

This post has been edited by DerekW on December 01, 2006 06:36 pm

Shocking!!

I've got some surface rust on my strut tops. But better safe than sorry.

Does anyone know the cheapest place to get new ones? (97 2.0 CT) - I'll treat the car to some for xmas. Is it a Citroen dealer item only?

Hi Wirdy,

The Series 2 spares catalogue shows something like six different sphere tops, three left and three right, which change according to model and RP number. So if you want to be sure of getting the right one it looks like Citroen supply only.

Derek

Hi Derek

Have checked the link you provided, thanks. I had only previously looked at Xantia strut heads to see if they would fit an XM. Had not realised that Citroen compounded the design failing by making the Xantia head rust from the bottom up (wheel arch, masses of road salt, water and forced air) whereas the XM rusts from the top down. From what I know now I would be loth to fit new heads to an XM without modifying them to control the risk of rusting and make them fully examinable.
As suggested earlier I think this justifies a section on its own. I think I will start to put one together.

Regards

John

Hi All

Have now turned out a vehicle alignment report for one of my cars. It dates from before my time with the car. One of the V6's was checked and reset in 2004 by Micheldever Tyre & Auto Services (01962 774437) Micheldever Station, Hampshire.
The inital Front Toe was :
Left -0.20 degrees Right 0.37 degrees Total 0.17 degrees
The final Front Toe was :
Left -0.09 degrees Right -0.11 degrees Total -0.20 degrees
Specification Minimum :
Left -0.22 degrees Right -0.22 degrees Total -0.20 degrees
Specification Maximum :
Left 0.00 degrees Right 0.00 degrees Total 0.00 degrees
This specification applies to Citroen XM, 89-00 Standard suspension Petrol Diesel.
There was a lot more information including rear toe and camber measurements.

Hope this is of interest. I have watched the detail of the discussion but as my expertise is in tracking, conicity, tread wear, contact patch size and shape etc of fixed axle steel wheels on rails I am limited in the contributions that I can make.

Regards

XMexc

Good grief, XMexc, I wonder how long they stay like that! Hydropnumatic Citroens must be the only vehicles that retain anything like the correct setting due to the self levelling suspension. If you track any 'lesser' car accurately, as soon as the driver gets in, or if it was done with the driver in, a passenger, or any other weight, the tracking will be out. Double wishbone suspension is probably better but not foolproof.

Micheldever, isn't that near the junction of the A303 and M3?

Peter.N.

Hi Peter

The car was approaching 150k when it was checked by Micheldever Tyres and the full history showed no earlier work in this area. It has been Mich shod until I got it and still has Mich on the front. The best riding of my XM's.
Yes Micheldever Station is in the V where the A303 and M3 join and the Tyre Co are in the old Station goods yard just north west of the station (A303 side). Do not confuse with Micheldever village which is 3 miles to the west of the railway station.
I can recommend them for Tyres, balancing, tracking and exhausts. Never needed the brakes bay. People seem to come from some distance and there is usually a waiting line of cars for the six or so tyre bays. Once you reach a tyre bay things are very efficient.
Web site: www.micheldever.co.uk

Regards

XMexc

Wirdy,

If you only have surface corrosion on your strut tops, is it worth while wirebrushing them and giving them a coat of rust preventative?

Derek

My thoughts exactly Derek - so on the ramps tonight I had a good look at the strut tops (under wheel arch & from the top). The rust on the tops is indeed just surface corrosion that wire brushed off easily - then a coating with black RTV sealant - good as new. Underneath, there's no delamination like the xantia horror pictures - it all looks sound, so a good coating of my 'magical' corrosion inhibitor / engine oil mixture all over should keep it in good nick.

With the wheels in the air I didn't realise how much the strut tops move from lock-to -lock, I'm just confused what the bearing surface is? Rubber-to-metal?

New Track rod ends done tonight, but if anyone has any tips for undoing the lower balljoints I'd appreciate them please.......Impact gun tried - no joy, they're absolutely solid. I think I may have to resort to blowtorching / WD40/ soak them another time to try and release them.

Driving home, my knocking from the front end is still there - so it wasn't the track rod ends.:-( Is there anything that clonks in the strut?, I noticed that with the strut depressurised on the ramps pushing the hub up & down gave a sort of clonking noise similar to my road clonk.

Nige.

This post has been edited by wirdy on December 03, 2006 12:22 am

Hi Wirdy.

I may be a lone voice here, but I don't think engine oil, especially used, is a particularly good choice of corrosion preventive. Having for many years in the past run a variety of vehicles which leaked as much oil as they burnt, I've seen many examples of oil sodden front beams and chassis rails where on scraping off the oily crud, the rust is happily getting on with it. On any surface where a fluid can lie, water will displace oil. Also, oil famously degrades rubber and when used, tends to become acidic. For any enclosed or non directly exposed areas, I've become a big fan of Morris' Ankor Wax, or Supertrol. I know that for exposed areas we tend to be stuck with some Waxoyl type product (and personally, I don't think Waxoyl is a fraction as good as they claim ---- it does dry and crack, and if it's on dust or grime it's still only protecting the dust !) and I think the key with that is an annual check, prod and reapplication.

With regard to the bottom ball joint, are you trying to do it in situ, or off ? If it's a real b****r, I'd be inclined to have the arm off and in the bench vise. It's amazing how much force is lost into the arm if it's in place on the vehicle. I'm sure you will have checked, but your clonk isn't the roll bar link ? I've had an odd one where even though it wasn't possible to detect with a bar or whatever, it was none the less, the culprit. Happy hunting.

Mike.

I'm with you, Mike. I'd prefer to keep oil well away from anything that contains rubber, be it natural rubber or synthetic. I used to have a large tin of lanoline based grease that should be ideal for this, unfortunately it went walkabout during our last house move.

Nigel, there's no rotation at the strut top. The leg ram is fixed rigidly to the strut top and to the lower (inner) steel dome by a taper and the large nut at the top, it carries the hydraulic fluid up its hollow centre to the sphere. The wheel is attached to the cylinder part of the leg so the steering movement comes from the cylinder rotating around the piston. The steel inner and outer domes are bonded to the rubber "doughnut" or cushion inside the strut top, so the tilting movement of the leg under steering and suspension movements is absorbed by distortion of the rubber.

In the posted thread, "Mandrake" is wrong when he writes that the rubber is in shear, it's actually in compression with the upward force of the leg acting through the inner dome and being reacted by the outer dome which is bolted to the underside of the inner wing. This rubber in compression takes the weight of the car, allows for the aforementioned tilting and absorbs shock loads from the suspension. Flat spheres are lethal to strut heads!

The odd thing is that Citroen appear to have tried to protect the outer dome from corrosion by coating it with rubber. I don't know if our XMs are the same, but on the Xantia the underside where it bolts to the wing is also coated. The problem seems to be that "they" left parts, the edges and the upper part that touches the wing, unprotected.

The answer lies in better corrosion protection for this outer dome, I wondered why they hadn't galvanised it but zinc would probably prevent the bonding process.

This thread has moved a long way from tracking, but good, innit?

Derek

Mike -

Anti roll bar links are both new, so it's not them.

I'm working through all the possible 'clonk' items one-by-one. My engineers logic is that all the parts are relatively cheap & I do the work myself, so if it doesn't fix this particular problem then it's one less thing to need fixing in the medium / long term.

I forgot to mention that my rust inhibitor is a mixture of light (WD40 type)inhibitors, heavy (waxy) inhibitors, a dash of new engine oil and a bit of kerosene to make it easier to spray at this time of year. I get the corrosion inhibitors at a very good price....ahem.......(from work). If it's good enough for aircraft flying constantly over the North Sea then it's good enough for my XM!! I've seen aircraft in outside museums with this stuff still intact and flexible after years of weathering. I've never had a car deteriorate underneath once in my ownership. Guess that's an advantage of being able to use a ramp whenever I want and coating everything underneath the car every 3-4 months.

As regards the lower ball joint - I've found my blowtorch for next weekend - ifthat don't shift it then it'll be hub carrier off and in the vice. Will be harder to keep the castlelated tool located in the cut-outs in the vice, but I'll try.

Bad news on my Xantia Activa - had a good look and found a very peely / delaminated strut top mount on the drivers side.