Alloy Wheels

[jorgy9]

Yeah, I know Volvo's moved, I only refered to the era where their suspensions could be put directly on a tractor or lorry...I had looked in Volvos because I used to like their styling for a period, but then realised the technology underneath was much like their styling, so went away from liking them! It's true ur 965 has a sort of multilink rear suspension, like the 760 also I think, but standard 740s and 940s had the...tractor thing. Volvo made the leap with the 850, and if I'm not wrong, thoses are the ones that were beating competition in the races u mention. The 850 is a good alrounder car -I tried at the time to convince my dad to buy that instead of the 460, but it was kind of too large for him-...Mind u, when I say "dangerous", I really mean it, but the context was Greek road conditions, or any other similar country (i.e. France, Italy) . Meaning, lots of twisty roads (mountains), combined with tarmac of varying quality, to cut a long story short, the perfec test for a car's ability to hold the road wit ha degree of predictability when the limit comes. And yes, cars as the old era Volvos or 80s + 90s Japanese cars (with their extreme supersteering reactions at the limit), were potentially dangerous cars to drive in Greece -or, shall I say, significantly less safer than an Italian or French or even German car-. If u had lived all ur life in Germany or the UK, u would think I'm talking rubbish, and I fully understand it, after having driven for 2 years in the UK, but come drive for a year in Greece. Lots of fun, but the other side of the coin is u have to be well equiped! It's not a matter of luck that specially French cars traditionally have a good reputation in Greece for being cars that -although softly sprung, like the old Volvos- hold the road very efficiently and are considered top for that.

cheers!
George

[jorgy9]

BTW, 23-24mpg I get on motorway at 70-80mph, consumption goes veeeery up at 110-120 (naturally!).

George

[beachcomber]

Hi George,

Jeez, didn't realise the roads in Greece were that bad! Although I guess that's not ALL roads?

Just to correct, or expand a statement I made.

I was referring to the 1986 740 Turbo Wagon [ same basic car as your Dad's ] that competed in the SCCA championship in the USA. Equivalent of our Touring Car championship. However, you are also correct about the 850 Estates doing the same in the UK - with the same results and after 3 years THEY too were legislated out of the championship for being Estate Cars! The only Citroen I EVER remember being on a race track [excluding 2CV's and the current crop of hot hatches and NOT including the various Rally Light 15;s, ID's and DS's] was when John Bolster drove a DS around Brands Hatch with one rear wheel missing! [ deliberately ]. It was of course a promotional gimmick, but never the less served to show the efficiency of the Citroen suspension system. My friend went out the next weekend after the event and traded in his Austin Westminster [ Farina model no less ] for a DS 19. It was like something out of Star Trek to us in those days. Actually wasn't there a series of celebrity races in the "Emirates" and Ceasar's Palace for CX's?

Ref. the rear suspension. There WAS a multi-link LIVE axle version of the stock trailing arm Panhard rod which was fitted to some 760's and 940's. ALL [ I think ]of the 960's came with the true IRS system that is fitted to my Estate.
The 960 continued alongside the 850 for some time while people got used to the "new fangled" FWD.

My Volvo is still for sale!!!!!!!!
beachcomber

[jorgy9]

Didn't know about the american 760s..Have u ever been to Sweden? It's the only countyr where the favorite boy-racer tunning-car is the...740. I couldn't believe my eyes! Like the Corsa here!

The DS -thing u describe is amazing really. You see, it is so interesting to see what Citroen's Marketing did (internationally) in older times to show why their cars are superior (see other post re. the C6)...I've also seen some videos from the GS and other models of the 70s, and they are quite illustrative. Today, total silence on those qualities...it's like THEY even don't believe in it anymore.

Re. roads in Greece: to be precise, I'd say they are, in the first place, demanding roads, just because of the country's terrain (mountainous, see Italy, South of France). You naturally get much less straight lines than in the UK. Even on motorways. Then, they are of ranging quality, as I said, because they don't get maintained so often as in the UK. This meaning, u can expect a piece of a road being of excellent grip and suddenly enter a piece that's not as good. This made cars like older Volvos being called "boats" and stuff like that...Differences in car road-behaviour are stressed far more than u would ever know in a flat and tidy country like Belgium or Germany. The funniest cases though were the first efforts in the 80s of Korean and other non-Jap manufacturers, using older Japanese technology, like Hundai, and some others that still today are paving their way. Those cars were death-traps! Still, they sold well because of being...dead-cheap (Huyndai-Greece is consistently the best-selling distributor Huyndai has in Europe -they get relevant awards all the time).

G

[beachcomber]

Hey George,

remember the old ads where Citroen DID celebrate their uniqueness?

The one where the GS / CX [ ? memory fade ] drove between two lorries and had a tyre blow out. There were a series of really heart stopping stunts - AND they weren't computer generated , real stunts with real people and cars.

One thing that always attracted me to Citroens was their cutting edge style - UNIQUE. They started losing the plot with the XM, Xantia, etc., which started to become "Euroboxes" in styling terms. A DS STILL looks space age, even today, the CX less so, but still uniquely Citroen. Until recently a friend had a late model CX Familialle [ 2.5TD ] in superb condition apart from a blown head gasket. The only thing that stopped me buying it was that it was a manual. I still regret not buying it, espcially as it went to the scrap yard earlier this year!

Our local Citroen dealer [ Bordesley garage ] had two of the very last CX's in their showroom - both Safaris. It was two years [!] before they both got sold off. I'd like to know what happened to them.

The other thing is that they seem to have abandoned their traditional roots with the long wheelbase Familialle's. As previously posted - give me a LWB XM Familialle and I'd be a happy man! People carriers are a joke - put 7 people in them and you then have to have the obligatory shed on the roof for the luggage!

Ah well. pass my rose tinted specs over

Beachcomber

[wirdy]

Sorry Guys - been away on holiday
Couldn't believe the thread had balooned to 4 pages! but lots of excellent info has emerged from these debates.
Can I just make a few points-

Firstly, on first impressions my XM seems to ride lovely on the new wheels, but that could just be purely due to the nice new rubber.

Secondly, thanks 'XM v6 Sadist' and 'Ciaron' - yep, I do think the Alfa / Volvo (speedlines) suit my XM.

Thirdly, alloys do have a disadvantage for a saddo like myself - I had to spend three hours thoroughly degreasing / cleaning / lightly spraying all my brake calipers, carriers and brake disk hubs so they didn't look awful through the alloy spokes!

Fourthly, from what's been posted, Beachcomber does have the knowledge and experience to back up his comments, but I must admit that some of it does go over my head just a little, so I accept my ignorance and value the learning you guys can impart through lively debate!!

And lastly - I sold on my Volvo 760 Turbo last year and still wish I'd kept it - I could drive 200 miles in that car or tow my banger cars to meetings and feel fresh as a daisy on arrival, even if the fuel consumption (25mpg or 15mpg towing )was a killer!

P.S - for all you steel wheel fans - I read last month in a car mag that shaped & polished steel wheels are set to make a huge comeback over the next few years on production cars and will replace alloys as the standard OE fitment to many sports / prestige models.

This post has been edited by wirdy on October 24, 2006 12:01 am

[beachcomber]

Hi Wirdy,

welcome back - yep this unimportant and uninteresting thread has some 500 viewings - and YOU were the one responsible!!!

Still, as you say, some useful imformation has emerged - and I guess if it can be of some use to forum members, that's what it's all about.

The more I look at your Alfa wheels, the more I'm convinced they're the same as my Volvo's Centaurs. My pal is STILL using my Volvo as he's waiting for his Audi to have a new gearbox, but I will check as soon as I get it back. I use that wheel cleaner stuff from the local factors - spray it on agitate it a bit and then pressure wash off. I do the Volvo once a month and it takes about an hour max.

I sold a Volvo [ 740 Estate] to a friend 2 years ago which is still doing sterling service. I last used it for a 100mph blast across Germany with a Rover V8 engine and box in the back. That car was unbreakable and exceedingly comfortable on a long run.

I am beginning to really fancy the Teledials for my next XM.

Beachcomber

[onthecut]

Hello all.
I can see you guys are seriously into the wheel issue, so I'm hoping someone has an answer for me. My present XM is the first vehicle I've had with centreless rims. (OE Citroen alloys) Just been for a couple of tyres, which they fitted and then told me they couldn't balance them because of the missing hole ! I've now discovered that around me, barely half the tyre people, including the big names, are kitted out to do these rims. Having watched the one who did, I can see why they may be less than enthusiastic --- must take four or five times as long to do by they've set the machine up.
Anyway, the point I'm rambling towards is that I inherited a little while ago a working on the car wheel balancer (the sit on type). Unfortunately --- no instructions. It works, spins, flashes, etc. but I don't know how to interpret the results. If anyone can clue up on how to use it, I will a.) be very grateful and b.) cease thinking you're all bonkers for wanting these impossible wheels !!

Here's hoping !!!

Mike.

[xmexclusive]

Hi On-the Cut

I see you have found one of the peculiarities of Mk2 XM alloy wheels. Unlike the Mk1 alloys with plastic centre inserts Citroen decided to use a thinner solid wheel centre and shorter bolts. Towards the end of Mk2 production they made a further change to the bolts and bolt holes so that the bolts could fit both steel and alloy wheels. This saved the need for a steel wheel with welded steel inserts so the spare could take alloy wheel bolts.
Hardly any of my local tyre fitters have shelled out for the special balancing tool.

Regards

XMexc

[beachcomber]

Hi XM Exclusive.

Just noted from looking at your fleet of cars why I can't find a decent [ cheap ] 2.5TD Estate - you've cornered the market!!!

I must say I'm erring towards a TD now instead of a V6 - it's ultimately an economy situation. The LPG option would seem to take up too much valuable load space, and if I went V6 it would HAVE to be LPG.

What's your honest opinion on the TD vs V6 - seeing as you have both!

My requirements - good towing capacity, ability to maintain 100 mph + for maybe a 1000kms at a stretch and 10p / mile+ economy [ thereabouts ].

I wasn't overly impressed with my K reg 2.1 TD - I thought it was way underpowered, but I'm told the 2.5TD is a different animal?

Wouls appreciate your views
Beachcomber

[onthecut]

Hello Beachcomber.

Just jumping into your last post --- having had several each of the 2.1 TD and the 2.5 (but no V6), in terms of performance there is no question the 2.5 is quicker off the mark (although not sports car standard) than the 2.1 and also a considerably smoother and less stressed unit once you get over 70. They certainly cruise comfortably at the 100 mark. However ------- the downside is if you have problems, then they are a sod to work on, or more expensive if you are paying someone else. In normal use, all my 2.5s averaged around 40mpg, which I think is pretty remarkable for the size of car. Towing knocks it down somewhat, although I never bothered measuring the difference.
I'm back to a 2.1 now and relishing the relative abundance of space under the bonnet and cheapness of service items, particularly those Oh so vital belts. If it's any help when you're looking, they seem cursed with excessive smoke emission under acceleration, certainly as they get older and I've also lost top gear on one of mine. (Although I think the fix is elsewhere in the forum). I count myself fortunate overall, now, to have come across what I suspect is one of the last 2.1 s fitted with straightforward mechanical injection. The electronics used on the 2.5 and later 2.1 quite drastically up the ante if you have emissions issues at MOT time.
Happy hunting !

Mike.

[xmexclusive]

Hi Beachcomber

I will start a new topic "Chosing an XM" to reply to you as we are getting a long way from "Alloy Wheels". Only doing this as it helps others when searching for information.

Regards

XMexc

[beachcomber]

Just a heads up.

I will probably have a set of Monaco's coming my way with as new tyres.

Also - a set of the big teledials in my local freebie rag - £200.00 with tyres.
Beachcomber

[archman1]

Just to say that of all places quick fit had the gear to balance the Mk2 alloys and did mine no problem. £5 a wheel.
Steve

[beachcomber]

To put the final lid [? ] on the wheel debate.

The Volvo and XM wheels definitely interchange - I've just tried my XM TSW's on a pal's Volvo 850. A straight fit. The ONLY point of caution - the XM bolts are 12mm x 1.25 and the Volvo 12mm x 1.75. So use the CAR's bolts, rather than for the wheels. Taper, thread dia, hex., etc all the same.

You might have noticed elsewhere that my 2ltr Turbo VSX Estate is up for sale to make way for my upcoming 2.5, so the Volvo / Alfa on XM wheels will have to wait a while.
My pal has a set of good Monaco alloys for sale - no tyres.

My pal is fitting my ALfa teledials [ the BIG dials ] on his Volvo 850 to try them out, but without tyres it's a bit difficult to tell the true effect.

Beachcomber