Driver Window Problem

Hi all,

Have had a look at the self help files from Noz (thank you), and am looking for some further tips before I attempt to repair this week-end.

Problem:
Have what I believe to be an early Series2 2.5 TD VSX saloon, which on the whole works very well.
Until last week when I lent it to my wife all electric windows were working fine, but she returned it, the driver window no longer works. To be fair that window made quite a noise when used, so I never opened it much, but she tried to open it all the way down.
More precisely the glass has probably come out of the mechanism as you can move it up and down by hand and it does not stay up by itself. Have temporarily taped it to stay up in a shut position. It sounds like the mechanism itself still works when I press buttons.

Question: What is the easiest way of getting to the relevant bits to allow glass to be reunited with mechanism? Do I need to take the whole door trim off? Where can you get tool for the plastic clips mentionned by Noz?

Any guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Serge

Hi Serge

It sounds from your description as though the problem is a broken cable. This is a particular problem with Mk2 winder mechanics as Citroen redesigned the wire guide (MK1's used a grooved plastic wheel, Mk2's a pressed steel slot making the wire run round a much sharper radius). They also fitted most Mk2 drivers doors with a very expensive electronic controlled drive motor so be grateful if this is still working.

Yes you do have to remove the trim panel fully. 2 screws in the inside hand pull and 2 more behind the loudspeaker. If you get a trim removal tool make sure it has a blade about 2mm thick I have found that the thinner 1mm thick ones just bend when trying to remove XM studs. Now I know where the studs are on XM panels I just use a 25mm wood chisel to release the studs rather than a tool.
You will then need to undo the plastic lock button to get the panel totally free. You will see a little plastic pip near the bottom of the button that needs to be pushed in and downwards. This releases the internal clip on the drive rod. Separate the wiring connectors and the panel is free. The motor is fixed to the door centre with 3 bolts and the frame by another 2 one top and bottom. The glass has a hole centre bottom with a plastic spigot holding it to the winder. The spigot has a plastic lock clip to hold the glass in place. Move the window down to half height to take off the clip and spring it off the spigot. Then you can fiddle the wider out through the bottom hole in the door frame.

Regards

XMexc

Further to XMexc's excellent description; as he suggests, the Series 1 window cable and guide was a much better design. On both series 1 and series 2 the motor rotates a steel worm gear which meshes with a nylon wheel in the gearbox. The motor is attached to the gearbox by four screws so, if you can get hold of a series 1 mechanism it is possible (and easy) to fit your series 2 motor and controller to the better series 1 gearbox and cable assembly.

Derek W

Thanks for all the info, will have a look at it this week-end if weather good enough.

I would recommend having a go. I replaced a winder motor successfully and I'm a complete novice. Once you've got the trim off, as I recall, it's worth making sure you're absolutely clear how it all fits together before yu take it apart because you might find yuourself working "blind" with your hands buried deep in the door. Also, the plastic clip that attaches the window to mechanism seems unfeasibly flimsy.

JB

Hi all,

Well your diagnosis is 100% correct, have a broken cable.

Thanks for all the instructions as they really made the job of getting to the window assembly much easier - only thing that confused me is that there appears to be only three screws holding the interior trim to the door on my model (one behind speaker grille, one top of handle and one behind switches). Must be because it is an early S2.

Anyway now have new problem:
-do not have facility to make new cable as suggested by Noz.
-local citroen specialist does not have required parts

What is my best avenue? Look for working assembly at scrappie?

Suggestions welcome.
Serge

I was looking at some on ebay last night Serge.

Just type in "Citroen XM" and you get a whole host of things come up.

Good Luck.

alternatively go to halfords and buy yourself a set of heavy duty mountain bike brake cables. These are the right diameter of cable and one end has a crimped end already. Use the crimped end inside the drive motor drum assembly.

the other end of the cable can be used on the window slider mechanism, where you only need to tie a knot in the cable and clamp the knot tight with pliers. The trick is to assembly all this, and get the cable length right, with the whole assembly outside the car.

total cost £4.99! and you have enough parts for two windows.

I have used this method now for three windows and have had no problems at all in two years.

Hi Serge

Sorry if I mislead you over the number of speaker screws. Did the reply from memory and could remember cracking a trim panel because I missed a screw. Must have been on a MK1 door.
You will find the drivers window motor assembly virtually impossible to source from scrap yards. Only fitted to MK2 VSX/Exc models. New from Citroen is about £200. It is the electronic controlled motor that is the expensive bit but not sold separately by Citroen.
I have a fairly large range of Mk2 spares for my own use/interest but can find a recovered spare if you cannot source elsewhere. Price would be reasonable (in my opinion) and I would want your old bits to see if I can repair them.
Contact me if you want to follow this up.

Regards

XMexc

Hi All,
I have looked on ebay and have not seen any of these cable kits, though I'm sure that I did a few weeks back. Does any one no of a source?
If not I may try a cycle shop for some heavy duty brake cable and try Gav's methode.

Roly.

The ebay supplier was Roy Mackay, I believe. Try contacting him on mackay1@f2s.com

Than you everyone for your suggestions!!!

Have finally managed to repair the broken cable.

After being quite unsucessful at tracing replacement part from breakers (strangely enough I got the same answer every time: that assembly is gone already )
I decided to be brave and see if I could actually manage to replace the broken cable.

In my case I only had the bottom cable snapped and the top one is still in good condition which made working out the length much easier (still needed two goes at it though).
And the replacement cable? Universal Bicycle brake wire from TMC £1.99!!
As suggested in a previous post, used the the thinner stop end and wound that on the drum and tied a knot on the cable at the other end.

But what a job putting it back together! the whole assembly does fit naturally through the available gap to say the least, and putting the trim back with only one pair of hands is no fun either.

Well very happy to have a window which now stays shut and wondering what will go wrong next......
Serge

Hi Everyone,
For those of you working to a budget and who have a Wilko's handy bike brake wire = 95p and very good it is too!