Changes, Well, all things change

LONG time since I put on an appearance here...

Well, the XM finally had to go, an 18 months from brand new drivers window cable failure (and it was £128 worth of complete mechanism - supplied, as usual, with the wrong wiring connector), followed by the passenger cable failing, AND the recent round of petrol prices were the final nails in the coffin. Along with a 40% insurance hike last year for no good reason! That and all the other inevitable XM woes.

Indeed, at no time in the 5 + years I owned it did everything actually work on it. Though, credit where credit's due, it never actually let me down either. 6 years worth of AA Relay wasted there...

Anyway, I bought an '06 C2 VTS (petrol of course) as the best performing, best equipped, cheapest to run (petrol. tax, insurance) small hatch I could find. £6k as an approved Citroen User Car, with 14k on the clock.

Only had it a week (192 miles). First impressions?

Quick, very quick, can't tell how it handles because all the gadgets get in the way, but it's more like driving a computer sim (without a force-feedback wheel!) than a car.
Sips fuel compared to the XM VST Turbo Auto. More powerful (and sensitive) brakes than the XM. Really.

Despite a '111 point inspection' it has a disconcerting engine chatter - sounds more like a bloody diesel. And an auxiliary belt/bearing squeak/whine at all engine speeds.
AND above 40 mph there is an annoying diff/gearbox/driveshaft/wheel-bearing coarse whine. In neutral.

This is crap on a 14k, 2 year old car that's just had a full service, plus the '111 point inspection'. Fortunately it's also got a 12 month full Citroen warranty (for whatever that's worth) and a 30 day return warranty.

So, why didn't I notice the mechanical cachaphony on the test drive? Well, it was raining.
No, that's not strictly true; it was pissing down. It's not the quietest car on earth anyway, and with wipers and fan running I missed it. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

Otherwise: It's comfortable, if firm. Excellent seats. Easy to drive.

Star features, for me anyway, are:
Windows that work. A fan that works. Displays that work and/or aren't stuck in Klingon script. Decent one button security/locking. Decent main beam (without having to strip the headlights and modify them). 32/44 mpg instead of 14/27mpg. Lots of boring stuff like that.

The mechanical noises ARE a problem, either it gets sorted on warranty or I chop it for a Polo GTI (my second choice).

But for now it's certainly got me out of the financial morass the XM had become.

So, what about this site? Well, we'll see. I can't ever see me touching another XM. But I guess you lot need a place to go, for now at least...

Hi Chris

Pleased to hear from you at last, you have been mentioned a few times by Noz.
Sorry you have had to give up on your XM. Sounds like the C2 was not checked over as well as it could have been. Hope the dealer sorts it without needing too much kicking and screaming on your part.

At the end you have put a rather cryptic comment about possibly a limited future for this web site. Can you expand on this a little as there are a good number of us placing a fair degree of reliance on the site and hoping to for a good while yet. If we have to do anything to keep the site going or transfer it then I believe we would all like to know. Do we even have any rights to the site and its content?

Best Regards

John

OK, starting at the important end...

Nope, no rights at all. No worries either, for the foreseeable future! I might even expand it a bit.

The C2 noises proved to be belt adjustment problems. Thus far I've only put a few miles on it and, apart from the latest style 'way too thick' screen pillars which restrict forward vision far too much for my taste - but I guess that's the price you pay for a class 4 Euro-NCAP rating in something this size - and the rather harsh ride on poorly maintained urban streets - I'm pretty happy with it.

Or was, right up to the point I noticed the clutch slipping slightly (at 16.5k miles?!!!!) between 3-4k rpm when accelerating hard in third on a steepish hill. THEN I find the VTS has an expected clutch life of 15-20K miles... Oh, and a Citroen dealer wants £700 + VAT to change it (obviously it's not a warranty item). This is typical Citroen main dealer urine extraction in my opinion.

I'm making alternative arrangements

Otherwise; it's halved my fuel consumption and insurance. Run like clockwork. Surprised a few supposedly hot hatch drivers, and caused severe embarrassment to a Lotus Elise driver who tried to show off.

Turns out it's an excellent three seater (I only expected two to be usable) with enough luggage space for three too! And, strange to say, providing you ignore the harshness on rough roads, very comfortable too.

I do wish it had 6 speeds though. 4000rpm at 72 in fifth is a bit excessive I feel. Citroen say it has a close ratio box, but it really feels like they just fitted a lower final drive diff! All in search of the elusive 0-60 in 8 sec...
Good job it revs to 7000 without problems.

Also, the combination of high performance tyres, fairly stiff suspension, seriously stiff anti-roll bars and electronic stability control result in totally confidence inspiring handling.
And, oddly enough, it handles speed humps, which my locality is somewhat over endowed with, better than my XM did.

Yes, it's NOT an XM. But it seems a tad more reliable and, clutch aside, far cheaper to run and a damn sight more entertaining to drive.

So, take care and rest easy about the site's future, OK?

Good to see you're looking in now and then Chris!

The short life of the clutch is shocking - how come this appalling lifespan of an expensive
to renew component isn't getting C2's forced off the road or recalled/redesigned - this
can't be right surely? The £700 repair quote sounds like a concession from the dealer
mind, unless they've had plenty of practice and can do it VERY quickly

I totally agree with the silly thick pillars - makes the Muppet drivers in many new cars
even more of a hazard than they already are - not been in a C2, but it's bigger sister C4.

Andrew

Hi Chris

With 15-20k being the end of a clutch i would be a little miffed as well, surely there are some serious/deliberate design issues there .
At least its serving you well, clutch aside anyway.

Good luck with it

D

That is shocking, surely this must be down to a design fault? If its down to a bad self adjusting mech. or something, you would have thought Citroen should at least contribute towards the cost of the repairs.

C2 is better over speed bumps than an XM!

We have 4 huge speed bumps (gradual not curb like) along the top of our road, i go over at 30, sometimes more, its so smooth, you hear a faint thud but dont feel anything. Its funny to watch people behind follow at 30 and not quite have the same reaction!

Ive followed a C2 GT over those, its not anywhere near the Xms smoothness.

I would imagine Citroen has set a low clutch life as there is a design fault with them they dont want to admit too? Seems a likely thing to happen anyway.

I just happened by because someone contacted me because they registered - but couldn't post.
Now that was set to auto verification via eMail. However I found it set to manual verification...
Something I'll have to rectify.

In fact I think there are a few things around here need a bit of TLC - or possibly a not so gentle kicking.

Anyway, the clutch. Well, the previous owner was a female...
AND, I suspect the clutch is on the small side - the bell housing certainly is - and it probably cringes a little with 125 bhp and 105 ft/lb (@ 3750 rpm, just where mine's started slipping!) feeding through it.
A bit of clutch riding (there IS a LH footrest though, contrary to popular misinformation), combined with that engine and there's no real mystery.

I've discovered a source of organic plate competition clutch kits, at £385+ VAT!
Fitted... £700 would be reasonable I suppose. But only if it lasts rather longer.

It's that or a third party 'standard' clutch and a reasonable deal and I may have to replace the clutch every couple of years... Hardly an optimum solution.

Hi Chris

Noz modified the set up on this section because somehow it let the spam bots in.

John

This post has been edited by xmexclusive on January 30, 2009 11:45 pm

Oh yes - speed bumps. We have ALL sorts here. But I did say my XM!

I never did get the bloody suspension right, despite taking it up to Cambridge and giving Pleiades an open hand with it. They did all the spheres, it had a new pump, height regulators... couple of valves... Suffice it to say the bill was eye-watering. And as usual, the 'experts' didn't fix a thing...
I know they can ride better than mine ever did - but...

Well, I'll have to look into that. Thanks for telling me. I don't think the current setting is 'optimal'.

Hi Chris

If you look in "Announcements" under "Sodding Spammers, in the C2 thread" you will pick up on what happened. Noz had changed some settings so only members could post, to keep them out, then I think you added a new section that allowed them back in and a few days later...... We do not see much of Noz these days as he has limited time.

John

This post has been edited by xmexclusive on January 31, 2009 12:03 am

My grandson has a C2 Chris. 1600 with flappy paddles and semi box. I don't think it's the ultimate performance model, I think it's the next one down. I quite liked it inside, sitting in the front gives the impression of being much bigger I thought. I don't know if it's the same engine/box as the C3 but have heard of some very premature box failures in them.

A VTR then. Got an 'automated' manual box, in essence the same box as the VTS but with lots of computer controlled electronic actuators hung on it. I considered one, briefly, until I researched them more thoroughly. Less power, clutches (surprise, surprise, seeing it's the same unit) tend to wear alarmingly, I really should have seen it coming (flywheels too). Electronic issues (it IS a Citroen). And, apparently you can mess it all up by driving through a deep puddle...

All the Citroens with flappy paddles use the same system too from what I've heard.

And C3s share the same running gear as C2s... Except you can't get a 1600 twin cam 16v manual.

Oh well, not good to know, I wonder what gearboxes cost?

Could be a case for the cheapest clutch I can get and a quick trade in against a Polo GTI...

I think you will find that the C2/3 clutch is fitted to many,many current cars and certainly they are not all Citroens, but they all seem to suffer from poor clutch life/reliability.
Blame the manufacturer of the clutches - not Citroen

A 2.1 manual would have given you brilliant fuel consumption.